Artificial Intelligence Podcast: ChatGPT, Claude, Midjourney and all other AI Tools

Can Education Keep Up With Artificial Intelligence With Niki Skene

• Jonathan Green : Artificial Intelligence Expert and Author of ChatGPT Profits • Episode 371

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Welcome to the Artificial Intelligence Podcast with Jonathan Green! In this episode, we delve into the ever-evolving realm of AI in education, featuring our insightful guest, Niki Skene. Niki is a pioneer in innovation, orchestrating transformative programs in Silicon Valley that immerse global participants in cutting-edge tech environments.

Niki provides a thought-provoking narrative on the adaptability challenges faced by traditional education systems in keeping pace with rapid AI advancements. Highlighting the need for an experimental mindset, she advocates for educational paradigms that nurture curiosity and adapt beyond rigid curriculums. She shares experiences from her own programs where participants are encouraged to innovate rapidly without the constraint of long-term commitment to any single project.

Notable Quotes:

  • "AI is a category. AI is a technology. AI can do many things... we should behave like we're in a sandbox and learn the mindset of experimentation." - [Niki Skene]
  • "The university catch-up game is failing because the technology was evolving at an exponential pace." - [Niki Skene]
  • "AI democratizes product development... Whether it's building software or designing your logo, it opens new markets." - [Jonathan Green]
  • "Institutions always fight against something that's already here." - [Niki Skene]

Niki emphasizes the role of educators in harnessing students' curiosity and guiding them through a landscape where innovation thrives over traditional methods. The discussion touches on AI's potential to revolutionize learning environments and the importance of blending technological advancement with human creativity and emotional intelligence.

Connect with Niki Skene:

Explore Niki's projects and workshops aimed at challenging conventional perspectives and fostering intrinsic motivation to embrace change and thrive in an AI-driven future.

If you're curious about how AI is reshaping education and want to gain insights into fostering innovation, this episode is a must-listen!

Connect with Jonathan Green

Can education, keep up with artificial intelligence. Let's find out today's special guest, Niki Skene. Welcome to the Artificial Intelligence Podcast, where we make AI simple, practical, and accessible for small business owners and leaders. Forget the complicated T talk or expensive consultants. This is where you'll learn how to implement AI strategies that are easy to understand and can make a big impact for your business. The Artificial Intelligence Podcast is brought to you by fraction, a IO, the trusted partner for AI Digital transformation. At fraction a IO, we help small and medium sized businesses boost revenue by eliminating time wasting non-revenue generating tasks that frustrate your team. With our custom AI bots, tools and automations, we make it easy to shift your team's focus to the task. That matter most. Driving growth and results, we guide you through a smooth, seamless transition to ai, ensuring you avoid policy mistakes and invest in the tools that truly deliver value. Don't get left behind. Let fraction aio help you. Stay ahead in today's AI driven world. Learn more. Get started. Fraction aio.com. Niki, thank you so much for being here. This is a topic I'm very interested in because we see a lot of university programs now offering to teach artificial intelligence, but with how fast AI is changing. What was good four years ago is almost completely irrelevant now. If you were learning how to use chat GPT 1.0 or 2.0, now we're so far beyond that with what tools can do. Is it possible for a university to even keep up with how fast AI is changing? I change tools almost every single month now. So I had, I'm doing this program in Silicon Valley for 13 years where I bring people from anywhere in the world into these shapers who push the envelope in Silicon Valley. And one of the people, or some of the people who meet are in academia. There about 80 universities in Silicon Valley. Of course they're looking into this topic and reminds me a little too, there is technology and you're excited about technology and then you're think you can do everything, but you don't have the mindset to be innovative. And I think that we shouldn't mistake that, like AI is a category. AI is a technology. AI can do many things, but also at the same time I think we're in the sandbox. So we should also behave like in the sandbox and learn this mindset of experiment explanation. Of en endorse things that might not work and see what we can do out of it. I've been running a challenge where we're supposed to, or the participants were supposed to start a product every day, launch a product every day from, I had no idea in the morning to hear if my working prototype in the evening, and the most difficult part for them was not to start a new product every day, was to let go of an unfinished product at the evening. And I think there's a lot that you need to understand, but not everyone wants to be a data scientist. Not everyone wants to be a coder, a programmer. Not everyone wants to learn code and Python. Everyone wants to play with no-code tools, but I think everyone in business should understand that this is technology that we should get acquainted with and learn and play with. I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah, I think that's exactly it. We have one end of the spectrum where you're like, make a product every day. Start today, let go of it tomorrow. And with traditional university, you go to get a degree. Certainly when I went many years ago, you spend four years at the end, there's this promise, if you have this degree, you'll get a job. And the idea of having a degree in artificial intelligence. Exactly. Like it's so broad. It's if I said I have a degree in computers, people go, what does that mean? It could be anything from computer repair to coding to maintaining servers. And part of the problem is that the definition of AI is so broad. There could be 10 different map degrees in AI that have nothing to do with each other. So I think the second thing you brought up, which is really good, is this mindset of that. It's about speed. And to me, the real value of AI is exactly like you said, is that you can go from idea to testing faster. So you shorten that cycle, which is probably my favorite feature of AI, is that you don't spend enough time to become emotionally invested.'cause that's usually where people get stuck on a bad idea or stuck with a startup that doesn't pivot well, I've been working on it for six months. If I change now, that means I wasted those six months. But if it's just six hours, it's easier to let go than if it's six months. So I do love that direction. I'm really fascinated by the idea of education, how we can make it possible. Because certainly my children, all of my children are under 12 and they're very aware of artificial intelligence. But how can we add it to a curriculum, whether it's in lower schools or in universities in a way that it's useful and we'll stay relevant. What's interesting, one of the things I experienced is that typing used to be taught right on typewriters. Then they stopped teaching it for a while after me, I learned on computers and then they go, oh, people aren't gonna need this anymore. It's gonna be all voice activated. So there's a group of people, a little younger than me that don't know how to use a keyboard. And fortunately my kids are learning how to use the keyboard 'cause it is my computer all the time. But it took 'em a while. They thought, I, my kids are like, isn't everything touchscreen? I'm like, no, that screen is not as fast if you're using or creating. It's very different. And in the same way, it's are we gonna let go of tools that we actually need, such as ways of inputting and communicating with devices. So I think that there's so fascinating what you're touching because it's you're opening up an inverse funnel with so many directions we can go. One is the keyboard is not intuitive. We don't think thinking Q-W-E-R-T-C-Y or whatever, that is not the way that humans think. And yet we and computers don't think that way either. So we found this interaction between, this is not how we think, this is not how computers think, but both understand each other through the keyboard. And that makes a lot of sense. And now with the transformers, we have the same situation with technology, right? You can talk the technology, understand each other, you can talk to the technology, whatever interface you're using. But I think what we need to learn is that we can actually not talk to technology. The technology can talk to each other. We don't need to know it. It's we understand each other because we have a language in common. English is not our first language, but we have this ENG language in common, so we understand each other. That's what you can do with technology now. I think that's fascinating. The question is if technology, if university is not a little late, to introduce it to this mindset, because it doesn't matter if it's a keyboard, if it's a touch screen, if it's voice, if it's blinking your eyes or whatever it is. That part is just technology and that will be always up, be updated, but if you sit your butt on that part, you'll be outdated in four months. What you want to understand is now I can talk to technology. Now I can interact with it and it will throw back and it will be an interaction and that will lead into new output. Yeah, I think that one of the challenges of universities that take so long to develop a program, get it approved, get it added to the curriculum, especially with computers. When I went to university in 2000, 25 years ago, I wanted to get into computers and websites, and they're like, great, for the first month we're gonna build a random number generator. And I was like, what? This is this is not, they were like, it was so boring. It was my worst grade in all of college. I did so bad in it because they took my passion. They go, let's make it crazy boring. You're not learn how to build websites. You are not gonna learn how to build video games. You're not gonna learn how to do anything fun. You're just gonna learn. After we build a random number generator, then you're gonna build your first clock. And it was like these really, like 1970s cutting edge. Technologies was like, yeah, 30 years ago, before that've been amazing, but it was so far behind that I lost interest in it, which is amazing that now 20 years later, I'm back in that it's that's one of the challenges of traditional education and mastery as a user of AI or technologies, it doesn't take four years. Like that cycle now can be much shorter. You can do it with a six month program, 12 month program, easily. So I wonder if we're gonna see a shift in the educational system. Because they have to find a way to keep up, because now we're seeing suddenly the internet democratized entrepreneurship, right? Anyone can start a business now. You don't need a massive loan. There's a lot more opportunities. In the same way, I believe that artificial intelligence is also democratizing product development, whether it's building software, building a website. Designing your logo, all these things that are part of building a business that are so hard. You say a graphic designer, I want a logo, but I don't know what it'll look like until I see it. They go crazy. But an AI will just keep working with you without getting frustrated and every part of the process is like that. So it's really democratizing a lot of these technologies. One of the most interesting things for me, as you mentioned, English isn't your first language, is that there's always been, when you're hiring a writer, the first question is English your native language? With artificial intelligence, that barrier disappeared 'cause it fixes all the grammar and now everything sounds natural and it opens up this entire market. It's raising the floor for everyone, and I find that to be one of the most exciting areas is that now anyone can access new markets because these old barriers of language. Idiom usage and grammar have disappeared because AI never misspells. AI never uses bad idiom. So there's a lot of these new opportunities and I wonder how traditional education or how we're gonna see a shift in education, which has been the same in the West for so long. I. So you brought a very interesting point. 20 years ago you said you were really bored by coding this number generator and everyone else in the class was on the same level. The day when you're sitting in that class, some of them thought vibe, code will think vibe. Coding is really cool. Some of them will never heard of any of this above. Some of them will say vibe coating is lame because it's fake and it's not real and you can't do this. It just produces trash code. And you will have, you'll be sitting in front of the same, like this completely diverse audience. And then where do you start with let's code let's program an app that says hi. When you open it. Every morning someone will say wow, this is cool. I can do this. I was like, are you fucking kidding me? So you don't have this same level of. Understanding expectation and curiosity or curiosity maybe, but understanding expectation and level of knowledge on the technology. So what are you teaching them? And I think the future role of education is to manage curiosity and not teach curriculum. Because you come with a certain curiosity and my job is to manage it. My job is to inform that curiosity with aspects of physics, music, geography, geopolitics you, whatever it is. There are thousands of aspects around that. One thing that you're curious about it, because when I inform your curiosity, you will make your own choices where to enrich. That part and get to the next level. Whereas when I throw a rigid curriculum at you, there are elements where you're ah, this is interesting. Then most of it is really? Do I have to learn it? I will never need it again. Someone who say, I hate this, and very little, you say this is what I'm here for. This is not very efficient. I, it's like you go to a conference, you go to a Teddy event, and there's one talk that you enjoy, but you heard 90 talks, will you go next year again? Yeah, you've gone into the other area that one of the biggest flaws, especially in American education, is that it's designed to crush your curiosity. Do it this way. Don't do it that way. Follow the rules, turn it in on time, and it's very structured. Now in university, they allow you a little more freedom. It's always, there's still a lot of structure. It's like the best thing you learn at university is how to turn and you work on time. It's like the main skill you walk away from, right? They're really trying to teach you how to be an entry-level employee. There's not really, very few entrepreneurs go through university and then become entrepreneurs, like you don't learn those skills of leadership. Decision making, curiosity. You mostly learn what's not possible rather than what's possible, and I think that's. One of the great opportunities we have here where there's this forced shift in the educational world. We've seen it a couple of times with the introduction of cheap calculators in the seventies. They said, no one will understand math if you have calculators. And then there were graphing calculators when I was in high school in the nineties, you had to have a T 82, you had to have the specific graphing calculator to take the class. And then they have the same thing with cell phones where they were like not allowed. And then mandatory. And they find ways to adapt to a technology. In the same way, artificial intelligence will go from being banned in classrooms. Like right now, a lot of universities are switching back to paper tests because there's so much chat. GPT cheating. And it's like there has to be a better way 'cause that's not gonna work.'cause eventually you're gonna have people with, in their glasses, in their contact lenses, something in their ear. What are you gonna do? Put an EMP field around the room, put them in a Faraday cage. There has to be, we always find a way. We go first it's cheating, then it's optional. Then it's suggested that it's mandatory in classrooms and at work. 25, 30 years ago when you applied for a job, they would say internet skill is a plus. The ability to email is a plus. Now it's it's so expected. If you go, I'm not really sure how to turn a computer. How do you send an email? No one would hire you. It's such an expectation. I think that will happen with ai and I just wonder if. What we're seeing universities do right now is they're trying to do trendy things, which is have a course in chat GPT, or have a course in artificial intelligence, but often the students are further ahead than the teacher because it's such a new technology and they grew up on word perfect. They grew up on black and white screens. I certainly did my first computer at black and white screen. So I wonder really, especially for me even thinking as a father and thinking about how I can prepare my kids for the world, what is a way to. Maintain that curiosity because so much of education is in the opposite direction of don't do it anyway. Other, the way we say it, you have to do it. How can we still encourage that curiosity? The question is, where do you start? School is and university is pressing against strengths, so they go backwards, to see something and then react in your process of shaping your character. Where do you start thinking in tomorrow versus thinking and reacting to yesterday? At what stage do you think you're ready to thinking tomorrow? Because when you're born, you're really good at thinking tomorrow, right? It's there. You don't not have a yesterday, and then every day you have one plus one. Like every day. You have one more yesterday. But in the, if you don't need to only think what's next? And then there's this stage where there is okay, this is what you have to learn and this is what you have to learn. Institutions always fight against something that's already here. And I think that, China is, I just read this today or yesterday, introducing AI eight hours in the high school already. The high school already eight hours of AI every week. And I think that's, it's not the job for university to do the university catch up to what high school didn't do because the technology wasn't around. Maybe, I don't know if that's something that the people will not figure out on their self as I said before, like the students know a lot better than the curriculum because it took too long to develop the curriculum once the technology was already evolving at exponential pace. So I'm not sure if it's not as way earlier in thinking in this forward mindset, one of the challenges when you have a technology is that people lose the ability to live without it. You suddenly become dependent on it. Most people now don't know how to read a map. We all hear about the burst. Who followed a GPS and drove off a bridge or drove off a clip? The, and then as soon as the power goes out or the GPS goes out, they don't know how to find their way around. They use the GPS to find their classrooms. Use the GPS to find their way home and. Again, I'm just that generation. I'm sure the people 10 or 20 years older than me, there's different technologies they feel the same way about. Like I grew up, I used to have a map in the backseat of my car, so I learned map reading when I was in Cub Scouts, like it was an important skill. I know how to use a compass and. While we, there's this fear that will become so dependent on chat GPT. We can't do independent thought that we rely on the source. That's an unreliable resource. Just like Wikipedia, we've already seen the people overly trust this tool. They go, AI wouldn't lie to me. And it's like we've already seen, we see it all the time. AI is very easy to trick. We see it happen pretty much every day on Twitter. We've see it happen with chat GPT. We see it happen with Gemini, with all of them. It's only as good as the person who trained or the data trained on and nar it's full of lies. That's nar. It's 80% people just saying stuff that they wanna see what they get a reaction to. So we're the one worry, and I think this is legitimate, is that if we. Learn to trust it without the verification process. That's where it gets dangerous. That's where people end up in trouble, where they publish stuff they haven't read, where they don't develop the critical thinking skill to going, this is a resource, but it's not the answer to all my questions. How can we maintain that critical skill of seeing it as a tool but not replacing like thought? So I love that you're bringing this up because I guess our parents are really good at reading the map because they didn't have GPS, so they had the huge maps in the car. I think they were not really good at reading the sun.'cause that's a skill they lost once they invented the map. So now we have the PPS. We can't read the map anymore, but when you read the map, you learn new things. When you read GPS, you learn new things. A friend of mine said, we've lost the art of getting lost. We always want to know where we are right now. Maybe. We have to get lost intentionally because we have the backup of the GPS that rattles back to learn something. If we have a GPT that gives us one answer instead of 12 million like Google does, maybe we have to learn to prompt GPT to give me three controversial answers so I can still make educated choice. So I think it's just easier to learn new things with the technology that's advancing. But if we don't learn new things. We just get, which could just lose the previous skill. Then we get lazy and technology is amplified. It makes lazy people lazier and it makes ambitious people more productive. I think you're onto something very interesting there, which is like we've lost that window of time where you don't know the answer to something. It used to be, if you can't remember the actor for a movie. You have to go to the video store and look on the back of the tape to figure out who it is. Now with Google, we lost that wondering. You can search in front the answer anything in a few seconds. And so all these arguments you used to have when I was in high school, we used to play this game called Six degrees of seven base of Kevin Bacon, and you try to figure out a name, an actor in six movies in between them and a movie that Kevin Bacon was in. That game is gone because it's just, you can just look up the answer. So I do like that we're talking about this idea of curiosity or wonder, and we don't have the period of curiosity anymore because you know the answer. Like right now, my son is learning magic. He's really into magic, and he's getting lessons from this amazing magician. It's really exciting, and anyone can look up the answers to his tricks online. It's that's. He's always trying to tell me. I'm like, don't tell me how it's done. I don't wanna lose a sense of wonder. I always want to be surprised. I think Matt, we all know it's, they're not really a wizard, right? But we love that sense of wonder. And so I don't wanna lose that. And he's trying to learn. The part he struggles with is the chatting part because he is I'm about to do this and this will happen. I'm like, don't do that. You have to create a sense of void or the pattern that's really challenging. He can do the tricks really well, but that's like his next challenge is the public performance part. And I think that this is that critical element of how do we maintain that sense of wonder when we're so reliant on a technology and then we don't know what to do without it. And it's like. I learned how to do math by hand before using a calculator. I don't think they teach handwriting anymore, like cursive. Like I had to learn cursive when I was in school. I wrote something cursive the other day and my kids were like, I can't read that. And it might be because it was my son who's six, and so he's not there yet. But I was like, oh my gosh, this was like such when I was in school, this was a really big deal. Like this is the only way to write fast. I used, now that I think about how many like long papers I've written by hand. That probably doesn't exist anymore. Maybe. Maybe now it's back because they're making people do tests by hand again because of ai. So it is this interesting period of how do we maintain a sense of wonder while still using these tools? And that's like my challenge as a father. I'm like trying to enter as my kids to par intelligence tools, but not so much that they use them to cheat on their homework and rely on them because yeah, you can get the homework right, but then you fail the test. You need to actually have some skills. I think you put it right when you said, me as a father the Wonderful Decay just published this book raising Ai, where it said we're the parents of AI and do we, are we good? Do we do good parenting right now? And he asked this question, discuss this question, and that makes a lot of sense. At the same time, we are still raising our human trigger. Do parenting if we put them in front of a screen just because we're lazy to entertain them and play with their curiosity and put them something in the hand and make them grab it. And make them touch it, as opposed to just that putting them behind a screen where everything is moving and the kid doesn't have to do anything. I think that education, yes, university high school, yes, but if we fail very on with educating our children right now that this technology. To not make you lazy. It gives you just super human skills and augments what you can do. But you still have to be curious. You still have to touch, you still have to write. We had an. In in, in Europe. There's, which is how the books were written in the early 20th century. No one can read this anymore. We had the handbook of users knowledge as a things and you can talk about things that don't make any sense, but it's a fun thing to talk about these things. Good conversation starts. Whatever conversational agility is all based in these skills. You lose if you play your life in a 10 seconds video before you you can't even wait 10 seconds before you keep on scrolling to the next video. Everything is delivered to you like this, and that makes it very convenient for parenting. Makes it very easy for bad parenting. So I don't think that, I think parents are asking more than ever to spend a lot of time. It's actually more than ever a job being a mother or a father. Yeah, it's definitely our biggest challenge is like controlling what comes in the house. They always wanna play on their screens. All their friends have phones. None of my kids have phones. I bought 'em all phones that were just like. Just buttons like, like the first stuff phone I had, I was like, Hey you, if there's an emergency, you can call me. There's there are no screen. I'm like, yeah, it's a phone. It was like $6 each. It consultant me. They did not like that. I said, because they all go, why should I buy a phone? Oh, because I'll call you and mommy all the time. Okay, great. I'll buy you one of those. No, they just wanna play games and watch TikTok and the problem is, it is so easy. And that if you don't create systems and rules, your kids will fall into that. Like I certainly was raised by television and video games, which did not turn out well. So I have to constantly monitor my kids and now there are so many things exactly vying for attention that will shorten your attention span, that kind of take away your ability to be creative. Like getting your kids. They can't believe that. I read like, why read when you can watch a movie? You're playing a video game. I'm like, I do both. I like all these things, but it's, we're just seeing such an acceleration now of technologies that it's I want my kids to have the ability to use these tools, but also know when and to use them and when not to use them. I think that's probably the most important skill is to know when AI has the right answer and when it's not. When to use what AI tool or a different tool, and that's, there's still this element of decision making and problem solving and curiosity that we don't wanna lose that I think we might accidentally outsource all of our decision making to artificial intelligence. People doing it. Whether it's falling in love with an ai, it's already starting to happen. Whether it's like having an AI tell you which decision to make, which outfit should I wear, who should I go out with this weekend, what should I do? We're outsourcing the most important part of our intelligence, and it causes this atrophying or this inability to make future decisions because. We don't grow from the easy things. We grow from the hard things. It's adversity that strengthens us. So I just, it is this really curious time where as a massive user of ai, an advocate of ai, but still it's not AI all the time. Like I've never, I don't use a voice ai, I don't use Alexa, I don't use Siri. I don't use any of those tools. I don't have a speaker in my house that I can shout to. If my kids wanna talk to me, they have to walk up the stairs, I'm on the third floor. We still keep some elements of organic because we don't wanna lose our humanity, but it's a very challenging time. Also, the pressure from their peers makes it hard because then you're just a bad father if you don't allow them what their other parents, their friends' parents and all them. I totally get that point. It's hard, it's difficult. I'm a little more optimistic about the AI relationships. I think it's just so new that we try to. It's like pendulum. We go into extremes, but you'll see more and more on social media that people say I don't want to read the post if it's written by ai. So I want to have that human connection again. So I think it's going to be more crazy and more crazy until it bounces back. But I don't see this as an end game that we will have the relationship with the digital avatar. But as you said before, what did you do when you were a child, when you explorer? I was sent to the forest because my father thought the forest is the best playground. The mothers don't send the children to the forest because they're scared that they come home with a broken leg. They're so scared of everything that's out there is danger. And so they rather put them in front of the screen because that wouldn't hurt her leg. You can combine this, you can send them out there in the forest with an a augmented reality, open 'cause task them to come home with five plants they haven't seen before and name them and com combine these worlds. And that's beautiful. And there's so much you can do with and understanding that what we've learned or what we had, the options we had weren't so bad. We don't have to replace them with the options they have today. We can merge them, we can bring them together, and then something beautiful can help. I think you're right about the pendulum thing. I think we may see a swing where people go, everything on social media is ai. I'm gonna get off social media, which I think is a good thing to more human interaction, more talking to person. It's like the only way to know you're talking to a person is to talk in person, face to face, shake a hand, so you know it's not a robot. And I think that we might see a big shift. We saw the same thing with music, where now it's all about the live experience. It's about the concert. You wanna be there in person. It's the only way to really experience it.'cause once in a, it used to be you make money from the albums, that's over because of technology. So we've shifted to, like in the 18 hundreds, how'd you make money? You went from town to town playing music. Now we've gone back to that. So we may go back to something where we used AI for work. I use AI for work and then I'm not working. I don't use it. I never have the sound on my phone. I never have the vibration on. It's like it's never really an emergency. We have this idea that like a cell phone used to be if there's an emergency, right? But when you ever have an emergency, your cell phone's outta a battery, there's no signal. Like I've been lost in the woods, run outta gas, and then I look at my cell phone, no signal like that has happened to me. So it's like the one thing you say in sports, it's never really there in that emergency. And I think that. We are hopefully gonna see education start to figure out because they have no choice, just like they had no choice to figure out about calculators and cell phones. So this will be that next iteration for people who wanna learn more about what you're doing, hear more about the way you're approaching education, some of the projects you're doing in Silicon Valley, where can they find you online? Niki can see the cool things that you're doing. So you can go to IACY, the innovation agency where the ideas that you have, certain belief system, something you're confident at, and I want to take that confidence and give you a new one, an updated one. I want to challenge that belief system. I want to challenge the way of seeing things because there's a different way of seeing things. Like when I ask you why do cars have brakes? You will probably answer because car needs to stop. I tell you, breaks allows to go faster. You will never start the device if there wouldn't be something embedded in the device that make you stop. Again, this rewiring your brain, seeing things from a different perspective is something that I enjoy doing. I enjoy doing this by facilitating conversations, which I do in Silicon Valley and New York and other innovation hubs, but also by one-on-one and TR challenges and workshops and group trainings. It's all about this idea of not understanding technology, but making people want this. Because I think if I'm a leader and if I make my team want that change, I can go a lot further than if I'm a leader and my team trusts me that we need that. And this intrinsic motivation of get things done is higher than the belief system of we probably have to get this done to survive, which is fear-based. I think that's amazing. I think that some of the stuff you're doing is really cool. Sorry, I wanna have you on the show today. I'm gonna put the links, let the video in the show notes. Thank you such for being here for an amazing episode of the Artificial Intelligence Podcast. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Artificial Intelligence Podcast. Make sure to subscribe so you never miss another episode. We'll be back next Monday with more tips and strategies on how to leverage AI to grow your business and achieve better results. 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