Artificial Intelligence Podcast: ChatGPT, Claude, Midjourney and all other AI Tools

Will AI Destroy Our Trust in Humanity with Natalie Oldfield

• Jonathan Green : Artificial Intelligence Expert and Author of ChatGPT Profits • Episode 333

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Welcome to the Artificial Intelligence Podcast with Jonathan Green! In this riveting episode, we delve into the intricate dynamics of trust in the digital age, featuring our esteemed guest, Natalie Oldfield, a renowned expert in trust.

Natalie provides invaluable insights into how companies can maintain and build trust, especially in a world increasingly dominated by AI. She discusses the concept of "trust equity," emphasizing that trust is a company's most vital asset. In the face of rapid technological advancements, where AI is replacing traditional roles, she argues that transparency and authenticity are essential to maintaining customer relationships.

Notable Quotes:

  • "Trust equity is actually the company's most trusted and most precious asset." - [Natalie Oldfield] 
  • "When excitement overwhelms trust, it's dangerous for companies." - [Jonathan Green] 
  • "Clarity inspires trust. We trust what we understand and believe." - [Natalie Oldfield] 
  • "Don't use AI to write your emails. Use AI to sort your emails." - [Jonathan Green] 

Connect with Natalie Oldfield:

Website: https://www.successthroughtrust.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nataliedoyleoldfield/
Book: https://geni.us/trusted


Connect with Jonathan Green

Is AI gonna save or destroy trust on today's episode with special guest Natalie Oldfield. Today's episode is brought to you by the bestseller Chat, GPT Profits. This book is the Missing Instruction Manual to get you up and running with chat g bt in a matter of minutes as a special gift. You can get it absolutely free@artificialintelligencepod.com slash gift, or at the link right below this episode. Make sure to grab your copy before it goes back up to full price. Are you tired of dealing with your boss? Do you feel underpaid and underappreciated? If you wanna make it online, fire your boss and start living your retirement dreams now. Then you can come to the right place. Welcome to the Artificial Intelligence Podcast. You will learn how to use artificial intelligence to open new revenue streams and make money while you sleep. Presented live from a tropical island in the South Pacific by bestselling author Jonathan Green. Now here's your host. Now, Natalie, I'm so excited to have you here as an expert in trust because I feel like this is the area that's in the most danger because of artificial intelligence. A lot of companies now want to replace their customer support with artificial intelligence chatbots. They want to have AI write their emails and write their social media posts and even respond to their comments. And one thing I believe is that. The best way to make someone hate you is to trick them, and then they figure it out and then they, because they go, I'm not dumb. You are evil. That's a natural ego protection example is if you suddenly realize, we've been talking for 10 minutes now, if you suddenly realized I was just a bot, you would be angry. You would be somewhere between hate and rage. That's the spectrum. You wouldn't be like, oh, that's clever. How cool I'm talking to an ai, because it feels like a horrible trick. And I feel the same way about. Having AI do your sales calls or having. ai, do your customer support. It's okay if you say, I'm a chat, I'm an AI chat bot. You let people know in advance, they're still gonna be annoyed, but at least you haven't tricked them. But the entire purpose of social media is that you can talk to people. So I, when I realized that you could tweet at and rice a question about vampires and she would respond. That, that didn't exist 30 years ago. That's what's really cool, right? You can actually talk to the people you admire. I I was working on a music project and I emailed the drummer from Billie Jean from Michael Jackson song, Billie Jean, to ask him a question about it. He replied, that's I. It's magical. That's the good thing, right? Why would we wanna take that away and replace that with ai?'cause I believe, and that's why I had you on, you're a trust expert. I believe that when you start to replace your social media content with ai, it's very dangerous because it's not neutral. I think you can actually create ill will or upset people. They go, oh, this company cares so little about me. They want me to read something they didn't even write or that they haven't read. What do you think? Expert? Fire away. First of all, Jonathan, thank you for inviting me. So excited to be here. What do I think? I guess I would start with, we all know that people buy from companies and other people they know and trust. When there's no trust, there's no sale. And replacing a human with AI for something like social media or something that has to do with a customer, I think is really dangerous because relationships, customer relationships are the lifeblood of any business and. Your customer's trust, which I call trust equity. It's a term that I coined a long time ago. Trust equity is actually the company's most trusted and most precious asset. So I agree with you. When we feel like we're tricked, we have what I call like spidey senses. It's not a very technical term. All my models are based on science and evidence, but we have what I call these spidey senses. We know. Intuitively, when someone's trying to trick us and when someone tries to trick us, what happens is we start to doubt, right? It fractures trust, it fracture fractures a relationship and we. When we have a doubt, then people start looking for other things and they think what else are they tricking us about what else is not truthful or honest? So I agree with you a hundred percent. That is not the area that an organization would. Excel. In fact, like I said, trust equity is the most precious asset. That's the part that we need to protect because that's the part that has this connection where people buy from us, where they support us, invest in us, tell our their friends about us, so that again, we can grow a company. There's so many ways you can use artificial intelligence, which can be really useful and give customers a great experience. And the audio, the spectrum, you can use it to give a bad experience or a dangerous experience. And the most popular use cases are content generation. Everyone thinks AI is for content generation, which is the worst use case. Writing emails, writing blog posts, writing articles, writing your social media, writing your comments. Those are the five things I would take of a hundred things you can do with ai. Those are the BO five worst things. That's the bottom of the list. It's so much better. Data analysis, organizing, planning, helping you see what worked and what didn't. Those are so useful. Helping you to organize your data. We've all lost a file or lost a video. Go, I know I made, something happened to me today. It happens every single day. I'm always looking for something. So there's so many good use cases, but the flashy and exciting use cases, unfortunately, do damage your relationship with your audience, and it can be. Really hard to recover. Once you damage and break that trust, it's really hard to recover from that. I would love to know, I've heard this all the time, no and trust how much I. Is each of those things, what's the ratio like? How important is being known versus liked versus being trusted? Because I, I think of them as very separate categories, known as they're aware of you. If they don't know who you are, there's no chance. Likability is something right. I talk about a lot, which is we don't buy products from people we don't like. So a lot of people think expertise is important, which isn't even on that list at. We don't change the channel when we're watching the news to follow the expert. We stay with the reporter or the host or the, whatever you call them that we like. We stay on the channel that matches our political beliefs or whoever we'd like, not the person who's smart. We don't follow the brain. So when I tell people who come to me to work on their book project, I say, listen, you don't have to be smart. You have to be likable. Way more important. So I understand that when I think of trust. Trust to me, at a basic level is if I send you money. I'm going to get what I paid for, like that's the first layer of trust, but I know there's more to it. So can you build on that? Sure. So it, I, like I said, I believe it is the most important asset. It is most critical. So no, like in trust. Trust is the most critical and that's the most important. First I decide to trust you. Then I'm gonna listen to you. Then I'm even gonna pay attention. There's so many statistics out there that talk about how quick we decide to trust. It's the foundation for everything, Jonathan. So in terms of face-to-face, we decide to trust in 33 milliseconds. Based on someone's facial expression. So when I, as an example, when I do my research before I'm going to talk to someone or get on a podcast, yes, I listen to podcasts, but the other thing I do is I search and see, okay are there any videos? So I can see the person. So trust is the foundation before we even decide on capabilities to see if someone is an expert or not. And it's interesting that you should ask me this because I just worked with a gentleman who maybe a lot like some of your listeners, very technical, he's a privacy expert and which is a whole other topic for us. And, he came in one of my trust mastery programs, and he said, no, I think expertise is the most important thing. And I think it's that, I'm technical, I've got, I. 30 years of experience. I love your facial expressions and that, I, I know my stuff and I can get someone compliant, a company compliant right away. And I, I think that's actually most important. It's like I, I love all your facial expressions. So what do you think of all that, Jonathan, before I keep going? Oh my gosh. I feel like you had to give him some really bad news. I feel like you were like, I think I know why you have no clients. And it's, I. Such a, that's such a tech world problem, which is that we think we should be. And it's not crazy to think that you should be rewarded for developing your hard skills. It's just, you go, why is everyone else getting promoted? Why does the boss keep promoting the person they like? You already know how to get, now you know how to get promoted. And you don't. You've already said, oh, just be someone, they like to get promoted. And it's unfair, right? Because the world's not fair. But we, I think about this. Imagine that you, there's damage in your house and you have a choice of two plumbers. One of them's a very good plumber, but you don't feel safe around them, and one of them's not as good, and maybe even a little bit dumb, but you feel very safe. You're definitely gonna hire the second one, Lee. That's how much Yes. Out the game. It's the same with this gentleman, right? He, I know him. I've known him for, X number of years. I like him. He's actually a really nice man. But you're right. Like he, he wasn't getting any clients. And it is so important to the success of whether you're a privacy expert or a plumber. So that is the most important piece is learning how to build and cultivate and develop relationships of trust. And coming all the way back to your question, that's the most important piece, Jonathan. Without that, you have nothing and it's, full stop. Without that, you have nothing. It is the lifeblood. We're so excited about this big technology bubble, this cycle about artificial intelligence that we're. Bypassing the normal trust process we use to get to know a company or get to know a brand before we start working with them, let alone giving them tons and tons of our data. We're seeing companies, adopt technologies very quickly. And this is affecting security for sure, but also affecting that. We don't know the long term consequences because it's a new technology. We don't know how it's gonna lead to a market shift. And you. When you give someone your information, you have to trust that they're a good steward of your data. And the only way to know that is to look at their track record. So how many times have they been hacked? Were they one of the companies that when they got hacked, they kept it a secret for a really long time? That's a the worst thing you can do. That's a great way to make me never trust you. I'm jumping ship and. OpenAI is such a new company as far as everyone knowing them. Do they have a record of being trustworthy? Does Microsoft, does Google, are these companies good stewards of your data or do they use your data to constantly show you ads? Do they read your private email to figure out what ads to show you, and is that something you're comfortable with, or is that a violation? So we are seeing that. The time we usually spend getting to know someone has really shortened and we're jumping into these technologies because we're so excited and we're skipping the, not only should I trust this company which is one level, but should I trust this company with my data and. I work with a lot of people who are who they, hi we, they bring me on and go, oh boy, you've made some very worrying decisions that I need to try and reverse as much as we can. But once you give your data to an ai, it's a one-way street. You can't, there's no delete, there's no undo. There's the reverse. And I wonder this, what has me really interested I wanna talk about is that when excitement overwhelms trust. And this is like when you meet a celebrity, the excitement of meeting them overwhelms the normal process you'd go through to get to know them. That, I wonder if it's the same thing happening here where you're so excited about AI that you normally, you spent three years researching company, doing background checks, doing all this stuff before you bring in their technology. But now we're jumping into it. Is it similar or is that the kind of thing that's happening here and is it dangerous? I don't know if it's similar. I do think it's dangerous, Jonathan. For companies, I think those that will. Be more successful are those in the long term? Are those that are very open and honest and transparent about what they're doing and how they're doing it. AI is such a big topic area. I don't know that there is. A really clear understanding of what it is. So when I hear ai, I hear everything from self-driving cars to machine learning to programs that can listen to what I'm saying, like you said about the ads and something that is gonna research for me, like a program like Chat, GPT. So I think that all of the misunderstanding and not knowing what it is, that anytime there's uncertainty. That erodes trust, because the opposite of trust is uncertainty. So I think that, I don't know the answer to your question about the excitement and the overwhelm. I love your analogy about meeting a movie star or, someone that is, revered, I do think the excitement of it has some early adopters jumping on, but I can tell you, Jonathan, the business owners that I work with, they're very cautious. And are not jumping in. In fact, they are, they're using the tools that you and I talked about that for like social media and content creation, not the tools that I think the little, I know I did spend 25 years in technology, so I, I have lots of friends like you that know a ton, but the business owners that I work with. They are not using the tools for efficiencies. They're looking at them for social media posts and content creation and like you, I think that's the opposite of what companies should be embracing. I love that you said uncertainty. I've always said confusion is unforgivable. Yeah. When I was in the book space for a long time, I always said, if you have a book cover, that's the wrong genre. If it looks like it's a cozy mystery, but it's actually a horror book, nobody will ever forgive you. Like you'll, it's unforgivable.'cause people get, when they get confused, their natural response in the same way to being tricked is that it's not, I'm not dumb, you made a mistake. Therefore I, it like creates a negative impact and that's why it. Give people, at least within the realm of what they expect, you go too far outside expectation and it becomes confusion. So I really think that you brought up something important, which is we're seeing a lot, and this is something that drives me crazy about my industry, about the AI industry, which is that all the words be nothing. The definition of artificial intelligence when I was a child was sentient robots. Very simple, right? It was war games, or it was Terminator. It was a very clear definition. Then we shifted to machine learning and strong and weak ai. So weak AI was like a use of ai, right? And strong AI was bad. The bad one, the Badie. Now they're like, oh no, yeah, AI is good. A GI is the one that might be bad. And it's stop changing the name. That to me, yes, whenever people start shifting names and what things mean, that's immediately erodes trust and leads to confusion, which is. The definition of any AI term now is almost meaningless. Artificial intelligence, like you said, it's so broad from, it's a car, it's a robot vacuum, it's a speaker in your house. It means so much. That almost means nothing. And even specific terms, if you ask 10 AI experts what an agent is, you'll get 10 definitions. Even if you say bot, right? The definition of an AI bot, there's at least 50 different definitions. It can be something that's just inside your phone, something that's. On your websites. It could be something that use as part of a programming process. Chat, GPT calls their bots GPTs, which is unbelievable to me. Why could you make it more confusing? And it's like calling, it's if Nike called their shoes, it's a Nike. Nike. What do you mean? It's a double, like it's so confusing. So I feel like we're seeing a lot of that, which is leading to this language creep. So when people are confused. Why artificial intelligence? I think that's a reasonable response. I think. Yeah, that makes sense. I it should be. It's, And so what I would add to all that, Jonathan, is that clarity inspires trust, right? We trust what we understand and what we believe. So if I don't understand what you're saying. Or what something can do. What happens naturally is we glaze over, right? And we stop paying attention and we don't trust, and this all happens subconsciously. So you know when companies start using these big acronyms and these words, and. We don't understand what it means. We just, we don't, we're not listening and we're not paying attention, which means we're not connecting Jonathan. And trust is about building a relationship. That's what this is all about. Trust is about building relationships. And when I say the most the most precious asset is having high trust. Equity is being trusted. It's about having a trusted relationship. That's what it's about. It's about relationships. And when we talked earlier, you said that we talked a little bit about all of the AI tools that can mimic, and I know that's my term, not yours, mimic or pretend that they're a person. Like to me that is a really dangerous thing. When, if you are a business and you wanna mimic that, you are a real live person, not only to an employee, but to a customer. Like that, to me, is gonna drive people away from your company. And no one wants to be tricked, as you said. I love that word. No one actually wants to be tricked, and when we feel tricked, we just move away. We stop buying, we tell everybody we know you can't trust these people, or this is what they do behind, behind our backs. Some, I feel like you can get away with it for a little while with AI stuff, but eventually as in the race between the sword and the shield, as you get better at. Faking avatars with ai, our AI detectors will get better, so you'll keep getting caught in these different cycles. One other area that I worry, there's a lot of language, which is replace your employees with ai. And there's a lot of, which creates a lot of mistrust amongst your staff because now they wonder if you're plotting their demise. And a lot of companies will run an AI pilot program and then it fails. Because of AI sabotage, and this is one of the areas I work in. I said, listen, if you tell your employees you're placement with ai, the pilot program will fail. And they're like, I do. I would be unplugging the robot. I would be whatever you can do to make it fail.'cause I don't wanna lose my job. And people who will work from the office now are so precious because so many people wanna work from home. If you have people who will come into the office, do not replace them with AI because you will not get them back. You will not find people that will do that again. No. It's become so important to work from home that's now become people's most important benefit. Very interesting. Such a shift cultural shift in the last 10 years or five years, and we're seeing a lot of companies wanting to. Put these like AI avatars mimics, or things that look like you, even with your employees. Now, there are some technologies where you can be on a Zoom meeting, and Zoom has recently released a technology where you can use something that looks like you and your boss thinks you're really there but you're not. And I just think I don't see any, I can't think of any upside to that other than. You're changing your clothes, right? That's the only upside.'cause I think the one thing is that like when I'm in a group meeting and I have to go to the bathroom, I turn off the camera to leave because otherwise they notice you leaving. It's more invasive. That's the only time I could think of it being useful. It's is it, is that enough of an upside for the massive, like the massive negative downside is that you could to the bathroom without people noticing. But the downside is that your employees don't come to meetings and your trust is collapsing and. You're breaking all sorts of trust lines. So I do think that we're so excited about these things that we don't think of the negative consequences. Yeah, and that's the problem with this cycle. And I actually believe that we're gonna lead to a shift towards new ways to confirm trust, which is I need to meet you in person. I need to shake your hand. I need to look in your eyes. I need to smell you because. Fake voices and can fake video, but robots are far away from reality that if you're in person, you know it's a person. And I've seen they've added a feature to chat GPT, where if you talk to it a bunch, it will start heavily breathing or do other things. I don't like that. To me that's so horrible. I already barely can handle talking to an ai and I use AI every day, but the thought of it wanting to be more. It just is, it's, I don't know a word besides creepy, like it makes me so uncomfortable and it's so unnecessary. You don't have to pretend you are not an ai, just be what you are, which is a robot. It's fine. That's why we had 20 years of Star Trek saying it's okay to be an Android. Why do they make all of those seasons if we're now gonna say Android, pretend to be human? So I, I do think that a lot of the. Use with AI right now is not thinking about the consequences, which is it's about saving time and short-cutting, but we're doing the wrong shortcuts. A simple example for me is don't use AI to write your emails. Use AI to sort your emails so you can respond to the ones you need to respond to. Yes. A mindset shift, and I think that a lot of people struggle with the idea of how do you create, I. Trust, and so they want a shortcut. I see a lot of people that there's such a popularity for everyone has become a coach in the last few years and everyone is selling lead generation and I encounter, I get a lot of people who message me offering to teach me lead generation, and they don't. They break, they tend to break my trust within the first few messages. I go, okay, when do you wanna meet? They go, actually, you're meeting with someone else. You. You said you wanted, you've now in the first message, you've let me know that I don't wanna do business with you. So only reason I'll get on the call is to figure out if there have anything clever that I don't know about or how I can do better than them. Because I find that if you just tell people the truth, it's so much easier. So I have a very simple method. I say to people who I outreach to, I say, oh, wanna talk to you. This is the thing I do. If you're interested, bring it up. If you don't bring it up. I'm not gonna bring up my offer. I still wanna talk to you either way. And it's it's, that's it. That's my entire sales process of mentioning I'm an AI consultant. If you're interested, ask about it. If you don't ask about it, I'm not gonna bring it up.'cause I don't wanna have that. It's I don't wanna repeat that friend zone moment where you go in for the kiss and she goes, what are you doing? Because that's what sales calls can feel like. You don't need to. Yes. Yes. We're so busy trying to be tricky or to sneak past people's defenses. It's if you just tell people what you do and say, oh, if you need someone who does this, just let me know. It's like it's not a big deal. We wanna build out a Rolodex of resources. So how can pe, there's so much to unpack what you're saying. Yes. There's, you said people want a shortcut. There's no shortcuts, Jonathan. There's no shortcut. We are craving sincerity and authenticity and we humans. Are drawn to a connection with another person. So no wonder it feels creepy when, you figure out, and it doesn't take long, and I totally agree with you. It's quicker and quicker to find out it's not a real person or it's a virtual assistant that, we call it a virtual assistant, but it's actually not Joe responding to you. It's someone else. And there's, and there, there have been assistance for years. Don't misunderstand me. But it's about being authentic and sincere, and I do believe that nothing builds trust like the truth. We need to be honest, open, and transparent, and that is one of my principles is being honest and transparent and can detect. This insincerity, we can detect when someone's not acting our best interest. We can. We can also detect when the connection's real. It's like seeing your facial expressions and Right and mine and whether it's AI or seeing the discomfort, if someone's trying to sell you something you do not need or want, like none of us wanna be sold to. And there's lots of folks that, that, that. We both work with and know that are always trying to sell us something. And it's like you said, ick, right? A lot of people that I work with because they say, you know what? I'm supposed to be in sales and I'm responsible for business development. I'm a technical person, but in addition to my job, I also need to bring in business. I work with them to help them cultivate and develop relationships of trust, because we buy from people we trust and we do business with people we trust. And the more we get to know someone and then understand what they're offering is, what they're like, what they're like, which. You need to be sincere and authentic, not a bot writing your stuff, like really understanding who it is we're buying from, who it is we're working with, who it is. We might refer the deeper the connection. I told you there's a lots unpack there. So I I'm in the process of hiring someone to do the podcast free interviews for me because. We have such a good time on the pre-interview that then it messes up the actual interview, right? Because I'm trying to recapture the magic. Yes, and that's, I was thinking about that and then someone was like, why don't you just get a AI that sounds like you to do that? And I said imagine I'm on the call with someone and they think they've spoken to me and I don't remember everything the AI said, or even worse, the AI says something, but now I gotta stick with it. So you've either you admit you either have to admit then it's really dishonest thing. Yeah, you're trapped. So imagine something really simple. The AI just says, I'm lactose intolerant now on the call for you forever. I'm lactose intolerant. You created a scenario that you didn't even tell the lie, but you have either to say, oh, actually you weren't even talking to me. It was a bot I tricked you. Or, which they hate you, or you have to stick with it and hope they never figure out, and you just, the. Downside is that I just think the risk is not worth it. And I do think it's we're gonna see a shift towards trust becoming way more important because so many people are burning up their trust capital right now by cutting. Yes. And using tools in the wrong way. Instead of using tools to save time, they're using tools to manage their messaging. And you. End up with. A large error rate, as in sometimes a bot says the wrong answer because it gives a different answer to the same question every time. And I see this all, I often have to re-ask the exact same question because it glitches out. This is just how technology works. So there's this really, we're at a think a time where smaller companies have a big advantage because they have agility, they don't have a buying cycle. Yes. Make closer, quicker decisions. And while all these big companies are firing their support teams and firing their social media teams, or with ai, you can slip in there and just have integrity and honesty and it's really, and be trust because. Just a few weeks ago.'cause I take a couple ghost writing jobs a year and someone said to me how much of the book do you write with chat GBT? And I said, none. What do you what? That's I was so shocked by the question because to me that's I. So unethical, you're paying me and I'm not doing anything. I will use it to format when I turn in the rough draft, now I turn in rough drafts because with no spelling and grammar errors, 'cause people always used to complain about that. That's the only thing I do with it is the formatting of the, at the rough draft phase. I was so surprised by that question because I'm a premium ghost writer and I guess there's pe but it was, it's such a violation of trust that. Yes. That's the first thing that came across my mind and I, now I understand why someone would ask that. It's a reasonable question because other people are probably doing it. But I was very surprised because it's that's my secret sauce. It won't be right if I did it that way. Like cutting that corner. I, you're paying for me, you're gonna get me. So I was by that. But I understand it now thinking about it. But we are. Or you have to ask people that question. It's come more and more common. Are you a person? Are you a bot? Am I gonna get you or am I, it's like when you hire a lawyer and then you find out the intern is working on your case. The summer intern. Oh yeah. I, you know what, again, Jonathan, so much to unpack on so many levels. So two things I wanna. Mention that. I love that you brought up small and medium companies that will have an advantage. I actually believe that any company that is trusted and has, like I said, what I call high trust equity will be trusted. So if we go all the way back to the, you mentioned that. Has higher trust that people feel more comfortable with, feel safer with he or she's gonna get more business than someone. The plumber that's been around for 20 years has lots of great technology, lots of great tools. Another business that has. Higher and stronger. It's about strong relationships of trust where people trust you, your customers trust you, the community trusts you, your employees trust you, you outperform. And what's so interesting is, I've been saying this for 10 years and the evidence shows and I actually. As I'm sure, prove this out in my research, that when you have high trust, you actually have more referrals. You have people that continue to buy, which is important. For companies that you know, either are software as a service or have, repeat business. You have. Higher customer retention, more recommendations, and oh yeah, you have higher satisfaction versus. Companies that aren't trusted. People do leave and go to the competition. They do. And you're always talking and fighting with them and negotiating about price, right? That becomes a challenge. So I wanted to mention that. You are right, it's a competitive advantage. And how I got into all this is really because I wanted to figure out why are some companies successful and others not. And it actually does come down in the trust factor. This is what it all comes down to. And I did that in my graduate research, so I wanted to mention that. And the other thing is I love that, I love your response when people ask you about how you use chat GPT for your book. And a couple of years ago, you actually had a podcast that I listened to. Around publishing a book and having all these different formats for people. And I remember I listened to it and I was thinking, okay, I wonder if anyone ever asks you that, because people have been asking me, not a lot, but people have been asking me about my new book. And I'm like, you, I'm like, it's unethical. No I it's. These are my thoughts. These, this is my view, this is my research. I wouldn't disguise it with someone or a bot being creating these things. That is, to me, that is a form of not only being unethical, but it's about lying. It's untruthful. Like I said, Jonathan, again, I have lost on unpack. I'm so on the same page. Yeah. I love all of this. We've gone a little bit over time, so I'm, this is my last question we're gonna dive into because I want, I know your time is so precious. Okay. I. Every time a company breaks trust, they change their warranty policy. They change their terms and conditions. A lot of companies like to stealth do that, and then what happens? Everyone is making YouTube videos about it, everyone's talking about it, and it can cause this massive erosion. I remember, I still talk about this in 1999, I bought a software with a lifetime deal and then they renamed it and said, yep. Now you have to buy the next, right?'cause it's a different name for a different lifetime deal. I still talk about it. I still name the company and. So a lot of my business is affected by things that happen. Like when people ask me for my courses, they'll say, oh, do I have to pay for next year's version? And I'm like, no. I hate when people do that. Why would I do that? Most of my products are on version three or four now after the past two years, I update them every three to five months.'cause you just have to in AI and it's. Such a shocking question to me because I don't do things that I hate when people do them to me and like I don't do a slight name change. I renamed one of my products and then everyone, I was like, yeah, I'm just renaming it. You just get grandfathered to the new version. I'm not gonna, it's not worth it to me. Yeah. For the loss of trust and all of those things, because I don't like when people do it to me and I wish. We just use the golden rule when we think, do I like when people do this to me, then I shouldn't do this to my customers. This is a conversation with my kids all the time. I go, do you like when your older brother bullies you? Then why do you bully your younger sister? It's the same thing. Break the chain. Break the cycle of family. Break the cycle of siblings, which is impossible, but it, yes. So I would just love your thoughts on this core idea of how people can. Kind of make trust one of their guiding lights or their guiding light. And then where can people find your new book online? Which I'm very excited about. I know they need to read it to get excited by it. And where can they find you online? What's the best places to find you? Okay, so again, lots to unpack. You can find me online. I'll start with that. You can find me online at my website. My company's called Success Through Trust. My website is success through trust.com. I'm also on LinkedIn, and my name is Natalie Doyle Oldfield. That's where you can find me on LinkedIn. The other question you had or comment, Jonathan, is around, doing the right thing and being consistent and predictable and reliable. None of us like it when someone changes the rules, right? And so if you change the rules partway through, that's a T buster. It's a trust buster. You can't change the rules halfway through. As I share with folks that I work with, none of us like surprises. Surprises are for birthday parties. We, we don't like surprises in business. We wanna know and that someone is going to be consistent, predictable, and reliable. Reliability builds trust. And when you're. When you change the rules you're not you're breaking that. And, you use the word ethics well, doing the right thing is an expression of your values, your integrity, and your ethics. And I look at trust is. It's about applying what I have created the eight principles of trust and one of the principles is being consistent, predictable, and reliable. Another one is doing the right thing, and none of us are perfect. Don't misunderstand me. I know not. Businesses aren't perfect, but if you make a mistake and people aren't perfect, fix it in a way that you are proud of. And so like you said it, it's really, I do believe all of this technology and this move towards AI and all these tools, there's gonna be a swing of the pendulum. And I do believe that, like you and I talked about before we became live is that there will be a renaissance in face to face and in person and. We there will be a renaissance. And there I see it happening now like you and I are talking about that people wanna do business with people they know and trust. And learning how to build and cultivate relationships of trust and becoming a master at that can really change the trajectory not only of your whole career, but your whole business. So it's it's really been great talking to you. And I do love that, that we are experiencing it the same way, even though you are really technical and I'm not. I'm the human side. I'm the side that helps people develop these relationships to build their businesses. Yeah, I love it. Thank you so much for being here. Guys, don't worry. We're gonna put the links below the video and in the show notes. If you wanna learn more about trust and you're struggling to establish trust with customers, and you're struggling to go from expertise to like through likability and into actually closing the deal, this is how you can learn how to do it. Thank you so much for being that here, Natalie for another amazing episode of the Artificial Intelligence podcast. Thanks for listening to today's episode starting with ai. It can be Scary. ChatGPT Profits is not only a bestseller, but also the Missing Instruction Manual to make Mastering Chat, GBTA Breeze bypass the hard stuff and get straight to success with chat g profits. As always, I would love for you to support the show by paying full price on Amazon, but you can get it absolutely free for a limited time@artificialintelligencepod.com slash gift. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Artificial Intelligence Podcast. Make sure to subscribe so you never miss another episode. We'll be back next Monday with more tips and tactics on how to leverage AI to escape that rat race. Head over to artificial intelligence pod.com now to see past episodes. Leave, review and check out all of our socials.