Welcome to the Artificial Intelligence Podcast! In this insightful episode, host Jonathan Green engages in an intriguing conversation with Steve Hamoen, a fractional Chief Revenue Officer, who is revolutionizing business strategy with AI in 2024.
Steve shares his expertise on blending AI tools with traditional business methods, especially in tech companies, to enhance revenue generation. The discussion delves into the evolving role of Chief Revenue Officers, emphasizing the integration of sales and marketing driven by technological advancements. Steve highlights the shift from traditional sales strategies to a more hybrid approach, where marketing and sales collaborate closely, facilitated by AI and tech tools.
Jonathan and Steve explore the challenges and misconceptions in the application of AI in business, such as the tendency to prioritize quantity over quality in content creation. Steve provides valuable insights into effective AI integration, stressing the importance of treating AI as a tool to augment human capability, rather than a replacement.
The episode is a treasure trove of knowledge for anyone interested in the intersection of AI and business strategy, offering practical advice on leveraging AI for efficient and effective business operations.
Notable Quotes:
Connect with Steve Hamoen:
Connect with Jonathan Green
Welcome to the Artificial Intelligence Podcast! In this insightful episode, host Jonathan Green engages in an intriguing conversation with Steve Hamoen, a fractional Chief Revenue Officer, who is revolutionizing business strategy with AI in 2024.
Steve shares his expertise on blending AI tools with traditional business methods, especially in tech companies, to enhance revenue generation. The discussion delves into the evolving role of Chief Revenue Officers, emphasizing the integration of sales and marketing driven by technological advancements. Steve highlights the shift from traditional sales strategies to a more hybrid approach, where marketing and sales collaborate closely, facilitated by AI and tech tools.
Jonathan and Steve explore the challenges and misconceptions in the application of AI in business, such as the tendency to prioritize quantity over quality in content creation. Steve provides valuable insights into effective AI integration, stressing the importance of treating AI as a tool to augment human capability, rather than a replacement.
The episode is a treasure trove of knowledge for anyone interested in the intersection of AI and business strategy, offering practical advice on leveraging AI for efficient and effective business operations.
Notable Quotes:
Connect with Steve Hamoen:
Connect with Jonathan Green
steve_hamoen _ jan 15, 2024 001_riverside
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Jonathan Green: How a fractional chief revenue officer is using AI to change the business strategy game in 2024. On today's episode,
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Are you tired of dealing with your boss? Do you feel underpaid and underappreciated? If you wanna make it online, fire your boss and start living your retirement dreams now. Then you can come to the right place. Welcome to the Artificial Intelligence Podcast. You will learn how to use artificial intelligence to open new revenue streams and make money while you sleep.
Presented live from a tropical island in the South Pacific by bestselling author Jonathan Green. Now here's your host.
Jonathan Green: I'm really excited here today to have our special guest, Steve Oun, who is an expert at using AI tools and helping tech companies especially to figure out how to focus on revenue. Now, it's very exciting for me to have a fractional chief revenue officer.
We know that right now. There's a new market developing and we haven't even figured out the term yet, whether it's fractional chief AI Officer or fractional a IO. And a lot of people, a lot of my listeners are actually trying to figure that out because. Normally when you're a consultant, you have a blueprint and you go, oh, this is what I do with each company.
But because AI is so new and changing so fast, even with my own trainings, I'm having to rerecord my modules like once a month because the tech changes a tool. I just use my main image generation to a mid journey, just made an announcement. They go, Hey, we've changed all the way. You prompt. So everything you've done for the past year.
Erased, which is, that's the best feeling in the world. It's like when you've written a whole paper and you forgot how to save like in college. So that's what's happening right now in the world. So I'm very interested in, maybe you could just start out explaining exactly what a Chief Revenue Officer is and then what the fractional version of that is.
Let's start right there.
Steve Hamoen: Yeah, that sounds great. A lot of people say in a company the, one of the first hires you need is either a a VP of sales or you need a VP of marketing. One of the things I think, especially when you look at modern tech, you know specifically ai the idea that you have, those is two separate.
Categories. I think we're seeing a hybrid now happen and where marketing and sales due to tech are becoming a lot more integrated. I think gone is the day of the lone gunman sales rep, and so they really need to hone their craft on being able to market. I. One of the things that, we always coach is that marketing is senior to sales, and salespeople don't like hearing that.
Salespeople, and I'm gonna admit a present company included salespeople have an ego, and rightfully because if you're out there getting beat up by the customers, beat up by the market beat up by your employees, beat up by your management, whatever it is you gotta have an ego in order to beat all of that.
So it's required for the job. But the thing is that ego sometimes can get in the way of learning. That's a big out learning challenge. And if you can let that go and say, you know what, marketing is senior to sales. How do I work more effective with marketing? In fact, how do I, bridge into my business more marketing?
I think that's where we're gonna see people come a lot more successful. And the CRO is, the idea is that when you hire a CRO, is that the CR really is. He's responsible for both. They handle marketing and they handle sales. They handle building the, the biz dev stuff around putting together the packages on what needs to be required to be done.
Then they put together all of the content and collateral and everything that you need, and most, most importantly, they use tech to do most of it. So you
Jonathan Green: Dived right at one of the things that I find really interesting, which is that. Especially people from old school marketing have no concept of ROI.
And I see this now with modern people who have either worked for a large corporation and done social media, or they have a social media degree, they actually don't know how to do it, right? If you actually have to live off of the sales you generate from social media, every one of those people with a degree, four year degree in social media or who's done social media for a Fortune 500 company, would starve to death.
They often focus on this thing called brand awareness, which is just like an imaginary thing, right? Because you can't measure it. That's a, I would love to be paid on something that's imaginary as well, because then there's no way to prove I didn't do anything right. It's emperor's new clothes, it sounds like what you helped to do is bring together marketing and sales, and I know the value of marketing is that the better the marketing, the easier the sales process is 'cause people come in ready to buy. I understand why that's higher than that, but I also know that a lot of marketing is really an effective and because they're not charging, tracking that metric.
So what are some of the biggest mistakes companies make right now, especially in the technology space and with the decisions they're making? When it comes to this approach for a lot of companies, especially tech companies, seem to pursue growth at all costs even though they've never made a profit and they keep just having larger and larger rounds of funding at higher valuations even though they have no profit.
And that's always blown my mind.
Steve Hamoen: Yeah. Yeah. And I think because it's a founder-driven company where they're looking at VC money only, and they're not looking at creating any bit of an organic business. I think they, they look at sales as a secondary target. And I think things, where you shouldn't really high, you might be able to hit that.
You look at the unicorn of something like a Google or something, at the beginning their burn rates were so high and, revenue was, perceived as secondary, that kind of a thing. But when we look at something where we look at revenue and marketing and sales, what I always look at is I say, if you're thinking about marketing and sales, think about catching butterflies.
And a sales rep has their net, they run out in the field and they go and chase and spend a lot of energy. Hopefully catch a butterfly and then hopefully it doesn't die by the time they bring it back. And what marketing does is marketing plants a garden and then attracts the butterflies, and then the sales rep's job is just to keep them there.
So if we look at marketing as the job to attract the butterfly. And the cost is it's gonna take, water, it's gonna take soil, it's gonna take, all these things that I don't know how to garden, so I would kill a plant. But if if you look at it from that perspective marketing, sure, it's gotta create a presence.
I, I think there is a little bit of brand awareness that has to happen in marketing. I think it's if you're in a bootstrapping company under. Five to 10 million. Yeah, your, I think your brand awareness campaign is gonna be secondary to your lead, lead gen campaign and I think lead gen campaign.
I think the idea of lead gen campaign is really how to create leads that close. Now, people always think of sales. This, when you ask about the biggest mistake that people make is they measure it by the activity that happens in the first conversation. While I got a lead in, it was crap. It didn't go anywhere.
How many times did you follow up? Once, twice, 15 times. If you haven't followed up 31 times, 32 times, you haven't really exhausted that lead. Second of all is how quickly did you follow up? Five minutes. A day a week for that first time that you talk to them. Speed, delete. So if you look at the number of follow-ups and the speed to lead, that's probably the biggest thing that you can say whether the sales has done their job.
And then if you look at the data set that's acquired about that client, that'll tell you the marketing has done that job.
Jonathan Green: It's very interesting 'cause what we're seeing right now is a lot of people are shifting from quality to quantity marketing. And what I mean is that they go, oh, with AI I can send out 10 times more emails, I can do 10 times more social media posts.
And as someone who teaches ai, and it's my biggest passion, I can always tell, I've noticed. That, especially on my social media feeds, that the quality of the content has really dropped in the last year. It feels like everyone is writing the same post. They all have the same cadence because chat, GBT has a detectable cadence.
It uses certain phrases over and over again. And they're all using. I guess the best way to say it is lazy image generation. Oh, I can use AI to make an image that reminds me of clip art from the 1990s. I feel like they've brought back clippy from Microsoft Word, like the most hated app of all time.
They've brought back like these super low quality images. They go, oh, because it's AI generated, it's okay to create low quality content, low quality images, and just spray and pray. This is the same thing I was talking about earlier, which is where people, when they're not looking at the right metric, they just think quantity's the answer.
And so first, a company will bring in a social media expert or someone with a degree in social media. They go, they got four year degree in social media. They learn from a teacher who's never had to use social media to survive and they have a degree and they've never had to use social media actually generate revenue.
They're the perfect fit for our company. You bring them in and you have no metric for success, right? You go, oh, how many posts did you do this week? 20. Great. They don't track even like audience growth interactions, they don't track any metric. Now we're bringing in AI tools and it's the same thing. It's all I'm looking at is quantity.
How many posts am I putting up? Not what percentage of people interacting, not what percentage of new followers we get, and that's really the part of the market that I worry about right now because I feel like that's why. Then the 90% of people not using AI go, oh, all AI is, and their experience is the worst form of it.
It's the same reason people hate chat bots. I've never had a positive interaction with a chat bot. When you message customer service and you get that phone tree and you have to try hitting buttons, all you do is get mad, right? Same thing when you hit the chat bot. You go, Hey, something's broken, or I want a refund.
They go, oh, I'm just a bot. I can't actually solve your problem. You have to answer 50 questions before I'll forward your message to someone who can. All it does is frustrate you. What's the right approach for integrating like AI tools into the business? I really believe that before the tools, it starts with the mindset, right?
With the right strategy of what do I wanna accomplish before I pick the tool, right? Because a lot of people go, oh, I found this tool, then I'll do whatever the tool says, and that's backwards in my opinion. What do you think?
Steve Hamoen: Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think when you're teaching ai, it's the same thing as when you're teaching an employee.
I think a, if you treat AI like an employee, I think you're gonna get better results. And when you look at a person and you're coaching them in your business or you're coaching a child in school or whatever the first thing I think it always goes down to is three things, attitude. Approach and activity and start with attitude.
Make sure the attitude is correct. Make sure that the goals are being, the objectives are being set forth as to why you're doing the thing that you're doing. For people, when we're setting goals, we have to link those goals to really big goals. Or else when things get difficult, they're not gonna do what they need to do.
AI will just do it. AI doesn't need the motivation. Already has discipline and when I'm coaching, discipline always beats motivation. 'cause dis discipline shows up. When motivation doesn't, and that's when we look at ai, exactly how AI operates. Then the second thing is looking at the approach and saying, is it the right approach in the way that we're doing things?
If we're trying to game the system and make AI sound like a person, it better damn well be a good job of sounding like a person. The first thing people don't like is disingenuous conversations. And where people think, they're making that person think it's a person and it's not.
I think that's where we have a challenge. And then the last thing is the activity. I think volume of activity isn't something that we need to be worried about. Look, if you had a sales team and that sales team went from making 25 calls a day to 250 calls a day from 25 emails to 250 emails, and those two first things were in check, I think you'd be quite satisfied with the results.
So
Jonathan Green: you brought up to think that I think is the most important is like I think about how would you feel right now if you realized I was a bot? I. You would be either, your two choices are embarrassment or rage. Those are the only responses, right? 'cause you think you talk to new person I'd say impressed.
It's thank you. But I remember when bots first started appearing way back in the a OL days in the late nineties, right? Someone messages you and they're like, Hey, it's a beautiful woman. And I saw your profile, and back then you would believe that was possible. Now we know that's impossible and you're having a conversation, five or seven questions, and you'd realize it's a bot because it just would say, oh, here's the link to talk to me more, and you go, oh, okay. Now I know it's a bot, but it doesn't feel good to be, it feels like you've been tricked, and I think that's the really important thing. The only thing worse than someone seeing your content and realizing it's a bot is not realizing it until later.
Because what I've discovered in my experience of marketing is that. The one thing that can kill a relationship is confusion. So if I do something and the person's two choices are to hate me or to feel dumb, they will always choose to hate me. It's a natural ego protection. It's basic psychology, and. I really think that's exactly what you're diving into, which is so important.
Which is that, oh, if we, people don't go, won't be impressed that you used AI content. 'cause eventually they'll notice, right? 'cause eventually we get used to it. We start to recognize the signs. Even if you can't tell now, it's like when they catch someone at the Olympics 20 years ago. 'cause they have better testing now.
It's the same thing. Eventually people are more mad that you got away with it, right? I think that this mindset of what you're talking about, which is how can I improve, maintain quality first is so important. So I use AI as a major part of my day, but if it doesn't sound like me, it's not useful.
If it doesn't sound like I wrote it to the point where I think I wrote it it has to convince me. And I think there's this thing that happens when we're the creator versus the consumer, right? So when someone's creating a product, they always say to me, it has to be really long. And they think, oh, my book needs to be 800 pages.
And I go, no, no one wants that. When the, when I'm a customer, right? And I buy a course and they go, Hey, it's 175 hours. I go, wait a minute. That's a month of my life where all I'm doing is watching videos and not even doing lessons. I don't have that kind of time. Brevity is, as we get older, especially when we start to realize how valuable brevity is, and this was a lesson one of my mentors once said to me, he goes, listen.
I'll pay 10 times as much money for a one page PDF that can help me make more money than an 80 page book that I have to read to find the nuggets. And that's always stuck with me. And I think I feel the same way now. I would so much rather you just give me the magical star than make me dig through it with a real, and we, 'cause we as creators, we think the value is here, but as the consumer, the value is here.
So the way to test, in my opinion, is to go, how would I feel if I. Received this content, like when I create my social media images, I spend longer on them than the actual text of the Post 'cause then it's so important to me that it looks cool and obsessed. Right before this call, I. I spent a lot of time resetting the lights.
No one cares except for me. I was retweaking these lights. 'cause I go, oh, I don't like the ratio of the brightness of my face or the background. No one has ever complained about that, ever. Nobody ever says that. But those are the things that I think about. 'cause I'm always chasing perfection. 'cause I go, if I watch a movie and the C CGI is bad, what does everyone talk about?
The cgi? No one talks about anything else. And I feel the same way. But some reason when we're creating, we have this different mind of, oh, it's good enough. How do you get teams to break through that? I know you mentioned discipline, which is so important that Oh, it's good enough to go. No, this is something I'm proud of.
'cause it's very hard to convince someone that they should be proud of a social
media
Steve Hamoen: post. Yeah, I think I'm gonna take a little pivot on that. And I, and then I wanna shock you with something. So the first thing is I'm gonna pivot on and say sometimes good enough is good enough. Because I think speed in running a business, I think speed trumps quality every day.
And if you look at something like Mr. Beast. And when Mr. Beast first got his business running and he was on Joe Rogan talking about this is his speed to get things out, is he would just get things out because, and then he would've data that he could then create quality. I think too many times people try to create quality before they have data, and so to me it's first speed.
If you're just starting something, I teach Brazilian Jiujitsu as well. And if somebody's doing a shrimping move or somebody's trying an arm bar, I just want them getting doing it so I can look at the mechanics and, because the thing is when we look at anything that we do, principles are senior to mechanics.
And I think too many times people would lost in the mechanics, not the principles of it. So that's when I look, I think speed is senior to quality. Unless, of course we're looking at building a plane and I'm gonna get on that plane, I want them to, spend a little bit of time on quality. But when you're building something that, you'll have some posts that you put out there, you have hundreds of thousands of people look at it, and then you have some posts that.
55 look at it. And sometimes it's the one that you spent 45 hours doing that, one that only 55 people looked at. And so I think the idea is just get honed in on doing things and your speed will create quantity and your quantity will create quality. And you just gotta be comfortable with that.
Now the second thing I wanted to talk about is being disingenuous. So I've been disingenuous with you because in this call right now I've been using some AI and I haven't told you that I've been using ai, and that's something that I feel bad about, so I apologize. Wait, you're a bot. Very impressive. I'm a bot.
I'm actually partially a bot. So when we look at what I'm doing right now, the camera that I use is an AI driven camera. My eyes aren't real. So when we look at my eyes, I can peel them off my face and they're not real. And so what it does allows me to look at you so I can have a genuine conversation while looking at somebody.
But I can actually be looking at the camera at the same time. So I've been using AI twice and so now I'm gonna, let the cat outta the bag.
Jonathan Green: Yeah, I didn't, this is my first time I've had a surprise on a show like that. That's very interesting. So I'm used to doing those things in post-production and I have a whole setup.
I have a teleprompter so that I can look in a tiny screen and do accomplish the same thing for exactly that. 'cause when I look down, it looks like I'm sad. It's, that's exactly it. It's the difference between using AI to make the content better as opposed to tricking me, right? And I think that's the line that a lot of people get lost on.
So I think about is that the problem is that people are putting out content that they're not reading and images that they're not really looking at. I think that's what I mean and understand. What about speed? Because there is that balance of oh, you're right. I don't, I hate when people get stuck in paralysis by analysis, where they just spend months without making a decision.
But what I'm talking about now is I'm seeing this massive glu in the market of people are just putting out tons of content they don't read just to get a lot of content out there. And that's where the problem is that they're not getting the data 'cause they're not even looking at it 'cause they're not even reading it before they put out the door little and after goes out the door and reviewing it.
At the end of the month they go, oh, which things work fast? So where is that line? 'cause now we're in an interesting place between speed. So that you're not stuck in processis by analysis, you're actually admitting, but also it's not so low that the quality, it's like it doesn't even matter what you're putting out 'cause it's not even in English.
Steve Hamoen: Yeah, and I think, for example, I use AI in, in how I create my podcast. I use a software called podcast ai.com, and that's one of my clients. And what it does for me is allows me to put out episodes with speed. And I think that's really important that if I got my my chapters not totally perfect, or if I got maybe one word wrong on the transcript.
Am I really that concerned at that point? So I think it's setting that benchmark for just an employee. Your employee's never gonna do as good of a job as you're gonna do is the always the idea. And that's the founder's conundrum whenever you're hiring another employee. And so if it gets to the point that it's good if enough in the things that.
Aren't, I guess I would say root cause, like for success. If somebody's gonna judge me, I have one guy, every time I set out an email he'll always send me an email back saying, you spelled this word wrong. And I almost feel like in certain emails, what I want him to respond, I'm gonna spell something wrong because I know he is gonna get back to me.
And so it's great as a communication with him. And we'll laugh about it because he's on the other side of the paradox where he, has that issue that he's trying to start a podcast. But it's so hard for him to do it because he wants everything to be absolutely flawless and perfect.
And he's, recorded a bunch of things, but not able to move forward because he just not happy with the content. So I think when you look at it and you say, if it's not mission critical and it's not perfect, just go for it. Let the market tell you what's perfect and not perfect. Because it will, and if you're putting a bunch of trash out there, you'll be, put in a situation where people are gonna ignore your stuff.
But the key is, I think the one thing that you have to be perfect about is looking at your KPIs after you've done what you've done. If you're not looking at afterwards and looking at the results of what you've done, I think that's where the challenge will arise.
Jonathan Green: Yeah. You brought up something really important, which is.
The next step, which is there are a lot of kind of tools now. I always use a lot of tools that kind of analyze my social media feeds, analyze my content, and I once had an employee who obviously I had to fire 'cause we had a huge disagreement. He was like, the most important thing is reach. And I said, actually at this company the most important thing is money.
Because unless you're gonna let me pay you in reach. It's not gonna happen. And the reason I think reach is a metric I hate the most is because it's actually completely imaginary reach is how many people could have seen what you did? And I'm like, wait, it's not even how many people saw it. It's how many people could have.
I'm like in high school my reach was all of the students. But I know for a fact that all the students did not like me because I was not popular in high school. So my potential reach was about 20 x my actual reach. And that's what I think of when I think of that metric. And I think that I. We get so caught up in these wrong metrics.
When I look at my progress, I actually really, the first metric I look at is emails. How many email addresses, how many opt-ins, how many people have entered my lead process? That's the metric that matters to me. 'cause I know once I have someone's email address, they're gonna buy from me eventually.
And I all, the other thing is I know I get multiple chances, so if someone comes because they're a fan of you and listens to this podcast. If they gimme their email address, I can now speak to them multiple times as opposed to otherwise. I have this one shot to be so impressive that they want to buy from me, which is very hard to accomplish.
I know there's different metrics that say take seven touches or 13 touches, or 17. I don't know what the real number is 'cause there's always a different metric. I know it takes more than one. I know for me, I need to get to know someone. I sometimes have to see them in different places. I have to get a feel for them.
And so I try to create that same thing. As a creator. It's easy for me to forget. It's so easy for me to just think, put out content to forget. No. Humanize it. Humanize it. Be more yourself. Find that balance. So I. That's where I think a lot of people get lost is they think they're looking at the wrong metric.
And it's interesting because the metrics that matter change, like for example, a lot of people were really obsessed with subscribers on YouTube, and then now they don't show your videos to your subscribers. Like I have to click a special button to see the channels I subscribe to. It's their algorithm never shows me the videos I wanna see.
It's so hard to see a video I wanna see on YouTube because they make it such a challenge. And I sometimes go, wait, where's that creator? I used to watch, where did their videos go? And they just aren't showing them to me. And I don't know why. Oh, you have to subscribe and hit the bell. Then what does subscribe mean?
And so that metric of subscriber, right? It's like I, that's what I thought subscribe meant, right? When I subscribe to a magazine, if they don't send it to me, they go, oh yeah, you paid for the subscription. We didn't hit the bell, so we didn't send you any magazines. I'm like, what? Wait, that's definitely what I thought we did.
So these metrics are sometimes moving targets and the real metric now that matters is watch and engage. Like how many people actually watch the video? 'cause that's what you get paid on. For someone who's a little earlier in their journey and they hear KPI, which I know is key performance indicator, not everyone knows that it's a fancy word.
Where should they start when they're thinking about first of all, how often should you check your metrics as a beginner, an earlier stage in a business, and what are the right metrics to check? Because I always check, for me, I'll just tell you, it's like I either look at growth. So first I look at money.
If there's enough money coming in, I don't care about the performance of the person. If I have customers coming in from Facebook, I don't care what you're doing. If I don't see that, then I look at emails coming in from Facebook, right? If you're my Facebook person, then if that's not there, then I look at, I.
Growth and engagement on Facebook. Then if it's not that I look at quantity of posts. And if you're not posting a ton then you're fired. So you need to have one of those four things. My favorite thing, of course is money, and then each one down is a little less important. Those are the four metrics I track, and this is why I've been through so many social media peoples, because they go, why are you tracking money?
And I was like I feel like that's what you want me to pay you with. That's why I'm using it.
Steve Hamoen: Yeah, absolutely. And when you look at the idea that you're not gonna track revenue, I think that's you have to have a really long runway. And so if somebody has hundreds of millions of dollars of funding, getting that $5 sale every day isn't gonna really matter at this point, because they're trying to build something where they can get 5 million of those five.
Dollar sales, and that takes a lot of inertia to get there. And I think the size of a business will dictate what the KPIs are. And the one thing that I always use is plural. It's not the KPI, it's the KPIs. Because I think, when you have that person saying, it's about reach and then you have that other person to say it's about sales.
And I say it's about both. And so when we look at sales, and it's funny because I always look at sales as this way is. There's two thing in sales, there's sales, and then there's closing. I would say it's about closing. If we're gonna look at that number, when you, and that's closing, is the same thing as revenue.
In other words, it's not about how many people you talked to or how many demos you did. It's not about, how many phone calls you made, how many emails you made, it's how many deals did you close, and then it's about the frequency of measurement. Is that per day? Is that per week? Is that per month?
And obviously your sales cycle length is gonna dictate how many closes should be having on that sort of cycle. My thing is I think what you need to be doing is when you're looking at those KPIs need to be reviewed on a daily, if not twice a day situation with anybody. If it's in sales, if it's in marketing, if it's in any aspect of the business operations, if you're looking at with a frequency of a daily basis, if not twice a day.
You're gonna have a better chance of having success because look, I have, I I said I had a Tesla I crashed it a couple about a month ago, and it got written off. Safest car ever, by the way. And but the one thing is when it's doing self-driving, would you be comfortable if it was checking its metrics on about the road, the KPIs on the road, like every 20 minutes, every half an hour?
Obviously that's not gonna work. You wanna checking on the fractional of a second? This, the thing is, when you're looking at your business, I think those metrics need to be checked on a more frequent basis than when people do their quarterly reviews or monthly reviews and that sort of thing.
Jonathan Green: Yeah, I think that's really interesting because a lot of people do think really long term, they go, oh, I need to do a six month campaign. And I'm even learning this in different parts of my business. I started doing a massive push on LinkedIn and the first I'm working with was like, you should make a sale in the first couple of weeks.
I was like, oh, I thought it would take three months to ramp up, which most people would say is really fast, right? And she's no, you got. If someone comes into your cycle from there, they're ready to buy because they know what you're doing. They're more sophisticated buyer. I say, oh, now I know she was right.
Very on the money. And that is the thing that we think we need a huge amount of data analyze. And I think part of it is that anytime you see a training or a video teaching you how to analyze your numbers, the person has a huge amount of data and you go, oh, they have. 180 days they're showing, so I need 180 days.
So we get that expectation that, oh, I need huge amounts of data that I need to look at. Otherwise, it's not enough data to be sure. So it's very interesting. You're saying once a day or twice a day now, when I was in sales, full-time and phone sales, yeah. We were checking our metrics. After each call.
I was constantly looking at what do I need to sell more of today to hit each of my different metrics that had 30 to 50 metrics a day. I was tracking. Am I selling enough printers? Am I selling enough monitors? Am I selling enough cables? Am I selling enough for different categories? Where's our contest this month where I can get a little bonus?
And all of these metrics are constantly in front of you, which of course creates a huge amount of pressure, which white people don't last that long in that type of job. 'cause it's maybe too much, but it keeps you on track. The challenge when you're an entrepreneur working for yourself is that there are so many moving parts that you.
End up working, as they say in your business instead of on your business. So just to wind it down, 'cause this has been very useful, where would you say someone can use AI tools or use even automation tools to help them to track their KPIs or to analyze their business, to get that quick snapshot?
What is your process for that part?
Steve Hamoen: Yeah. So a great way to do it is find technology that is smart and intelligent and adapt it into your business, or build technology that's smart and adapted to your business. For example, there's a company called Data Parrott. Data Parrott sits on the top of HubSpot.
What it's gonna do is it's gonna look into all of your sales activity. It's gonna tell you everything about what's going on with the opportunities. It's gonna say, is this the right avatar for your client? And it's gonna pop you an email every day. So it's the best data analyst that could ever happen living in your business.
And it's used and it's just functional ai. Something like that I think is very interesting as a use case for AI as a larger organization. For the smaller person who's just getting into ai, I think the idea of just using something very simple like chat GBT and prompting chat GBT to behave in the way that makes sense for you I think that is, is a really good way to use ai.
Like I built code, I'm not a programmer. I've written Python code to do certain things that I've never thought I could do. And it all worked and I used chat GBT to do that. And so I was using programming CSS code yesterday. I don't even know what CSS stands for. And so just figuring that those things out.
But chat, GBT has given me that tool. So I think if you're using chat GBT to process information from the standpoint of either learning I think that's really is important or in creation. I think that's where it can be used. We use it for chatbots. One of the things that on podcast ai.com we use it for, is we use it for the ability to be able to have a conversation with the host.
And it's, and it does creates the voice and that sort of thing. And obviously says I'm ai because it's in the title, so you wanna play with it. And so people feel comfortable with it. And it's just so much fun because you get, have a conversation with the host. It's very descriptive what the, the show is about and it's great. So I think, if you're using it for connections and stuff like that, I think it's great. I think if it's using for content, I think it's great. And I think most importantly, if you're using it for learning I think it, it really adds a lot of value because it's got a lot of patience.
I. I think that's
Jonathan Green: really important to people to realize that you can push beyond what it can do. Like you can actually build software without knowing what it is. I built something at Python, I go what's Python? And it can absolutely go into that place and we could definitely go down that rabbit hole.
I'm resisting that temptation 'cause we do need to bring this in for land and keep it a tight episode. So this is very interesting. You talked a couple of times about your main platform podcast, ai. Is that the best place for people to find you and see what you're working on these days?
Steve Hamoen: Yeah, I think POD podcast AI is probably one of the big things to really get into working together.
And so if they go to either podcast ai.com or podcast launch.ai, those are the two ways to reach out to me. And podcast launch goes directly to me, and then we can have a conversation of what it looks like to make your podcast take the tech from being a hundred percent of your problem to 5% of your problem.
Jonathan Green: I love that because the thing I definitely found out running a podcast, I'm just about to 300 episodes, is that this is the easy part. Everything before and everything after is the hard part. That's where all the hard work comes processing it, making sure the lighting is good, creating social media clips, following up with the guests so they know when their episode is actually coming out.
Publishing the episode on time, publishing the show notes, publishing the. Description, publishing the transcript, all the pieces, grad chapters so people can jump around. It's so much more work. It's never the same amount of time. Even now, when I have a really efficient process, it still takes longer to do all of that because it sounds like a lot of stuff than it does to do this.
So thank you so much for being here. I know people are gonna find that useful. Again, this has been an amazing episode of the Artificial Intelligence Podcast with our guest, Steve Hoon. Thank you so much for being here today. I really appreciate
Steve Hamoen: it. Thank you very much for having me. It's been a great chatting with you as well.
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