Welcome to the Artificial Intelligence Podcast! This podcast is aimed at helping you navigate the rapidly evolving world of AI and digital tools to streamline your workflow, enhance your content creation, and optimize your online presence. Our host is best-selling author, Jonathan Green.
Today's guest is Jeff Dolan, a visionary entrepreneur navigating the shifting landscape of AI-driven content creation. As the demands of the digital age expand, Jeff has been on the forefront of utilizing AI to simplify content production and distribution. With an extensive background in audiovisual media, Jeff brings a wealth of knowledge on how to adapt and thrive in a market that is constantly being reshaped by new technologies.
In this episode, Jeff Dolan delves into the future of AI in content creation, discussing how it can solve common problems like transcription, editing, and even video production. He explores the impact of AI tools that offer functionalities like automatic editing and background removal, and how these advancements are changing the job market and the way we work.
Notable Quotes
Connect with Jeff Dolan
Website: https://wavve.co
Connect with Jonathan Green
Welcome to the Artificial Intelligence Podcast! This podcast is aimed at helping you navigate the rapidly evolving world of AI and digital tools to streamline your workflow, enhance your content creation, and optimize your online presence. Our host is best-selling author, Jonathan Green.
Today's guest is Jeff Dolan, a visionary entrepreneur navigating the shifting landscape of AI-driven content creation. As the demands of the digital age expand, Jeff has been on the forefront of utilizing AI to simplify content production and distribution. With an extensive background in audiovisual media, Jeff brings a wealth of knowledge on how to adapt and thrive in a market that is constantly being reshaped by new technologies.
In this episode, Jeff Dolan delves into the future of AI in content creation, discussing how it can solve common problems like transcription, editing, and even video production. He explores the impact of AI tools that offer functionalities like automatic editing and background removal, and how these advancements are changing the job market and the way we work.
Notable Quotes
Connect with Jeff Dolan
Website: https://wavve.co
Connect with Jonathan Green
Do I really need a tool that has every single feature in the whole world to keep it, kind of solve every single problem all in one place. Let's find out if that's what we need. It's today's special guest, Jeff Dolan, on the Artificial Intelligence Podcast. Now Jeff, I'm really excited to have you here because you have a very interesting tool and a very interesting approach that we were talking about before the episode to kind of what your tool does. Now your tool, just to let people know, we'll start right at the gate, is something that lets you create audio grams for an audio podcast. Because that actually was a huge problem for me for a long time. I was doing audio only episodes until about two years ago. And to get those onto YouTube, to get those onto Instagram, it was a real nightmare. Like it sounds simple, but to create a square that has a part of the episode and has like a moving waveform so you can tell it's moving was really hard. So you solve that problem, very interesting. How did you choose that? as the problem you're gonna solve? Because obviously there's a lot of audio-only podcasts that are still out there. All the ones I listen to, I assume, are audio-only. As I said, I don't know if I like video podcasts. So how'd you kind of choose that market and enter the SaaS world, which is a very specific type of online business to build? Yeah, I mean, I've been in software as a service for my whole career. And so it's been something that's been familiar to me. Uh, and with the advent of AI, I think, you know, AI is starting to code its own solutions. Right. And so I think all the SaaS companies are sitting back and trying to figure out where should AI be inserted or used or leveraged, um, for our customers. And so. Um, yeah, I mean, it's an interesting topic right now because I mean, I was just listening to Elon Musk the other day, talk about, you know, software is going to write software. And so if you get the right general AI that knows how to code, it basically can start solving your problems for you. And then we become the quality assurance testers of it. Right. And we, and you just mentioned before, like It's so hard because if AI is not perfect, it's not useful. And so it's almost like this expectation of it's got to do it. Like a human would do it, or it just doesn't resonate. Yeah, I think that the biggest problem with AI is the uncanny valley, which is where it's close enough that it almost seems like a human, but it's not close enough so that it seems creepy. Like if you think of those motion capture videos that they made, they made three of them, like Tom Hanks and the Christmas train and two other ones, that company went out of business. They made three movies that were so creepy. That company's gone because they thought they're like this, and they got trapped by the uncanny valley. you don't want a cartoon's face to be too expressive. And it's this really tricky spot. And it's the reason, and this is why I love to talk about this topic, I'm really obsessed with practical AI, and I don't think any AI video tool right now has gone past the, oh, that's interesting. A lot of them get stuck in, oh, that's a nightmare, that's haunting, I'm uncomfortable, or it makes me dizzy. Like, there's an AI tool that I use to make images move, I always get dizzy because it does circles, so I get sick to my stomach when I'm using it. but it does boost my Pinterest views. So I have to use it, but I'm like, oh boy, I'm getting dizzy. So I'm very sensitive to actually bad video. Even those, I think they're called 5D, the things you sit in it about. My kids love them. Every time we're at the mall, we have to get in it. It always gets sick. I hate them. I just feel so uncomfortable. Like, I don't know, it really, I have this real problem with that, that's why I guess I'm not an astronaut or a fighter pilot, but one of the things. I was with you though. Like when 3D glasses and 3D movies came out, you know, years and years ago now. I mean, it was tough to kind of sit there and be like, okay. And I even remember watching, I don't even know what the movie was, but it was one of the first feature length films that was fully animated, maybe Final Fantasy or something. I don't know what it was, but it was so close, but so off that like I literally was like My mind was trying to figure out is this real or not real? No, it's not real But it's it looks real, but maybe not as real and it that back and forth in my head Ruin the entire movie. I didn't even know what it was about or what I mean, I just was like, oh get me out of here that you brought that up because that's the other movie that almost put that entire video company out of business. The movie was so bad because they tried that. The same thing where the characters are too close to human. So one of the issues, and I want to get practical with this because you solved a problem that I had for a long time. Actually, my problem for a long time was making an audio podcast, trying to create social media clips was a nightmare. So before AI, just the process of creating the image and having a waveform that would move so the image is a little bit interesting was really hard. And people do listen to old episodes of my podcast on YouTube where it's just a single slide with the name of the episode and a moving way for me. And it was not easy to put together. So one of the challenges and something we brought up before is that a lot of tools are creeping into each other. So I want to give you a specific example. Um, a year ago, I was creating my social media clips manually, and it was actually really hard to get the exact time codes. The tool I used didn't have a, it doesn't have a very good slider. So it always clips off like half a second that I don't want. It's kind of annoying, but it had templates and it was really compared to anything else with the grid, but I had to have a full-time VA running it. Then the first tool that made automated social media clips came out. Now there's two issues. The first is that you always have to check them because they're never as viral or as good as they think. They always catch some bad parts. I've never had a clip that I didn't have to modify. Never, never, never. And you always have to choose the right template. The second... And bigger issue is that went from being a product to a feature because now the software I used to record my episodes, the software I used to make transcripts, they both have that as a feature. And it's starting to get to the point where it's not good. I can only assume my podcast host is going to add that as a feature soon. And I'm sure then YouTube will add it. So what was it kind of went from it didn't exist, you had to do it manually, then you had to do it manually. Then it became a tool. But now it's become a feature. And it's tools are merging into each other. And one of the tools you mentioned earlier, which is one I use a lot is Descript. When I first started using it, it was just a transcription software. Now, they're a video editing podcast editing platform and their main feature, right? Transcription used to be such a nightmare. So when I started out, I used to use Dragon, Dictate, and they say, 95% accurate. But when you dictate with Dictate with Dragon, well, that's one in every 20 words is wrong. So every sentence has a mistake and it would have no punctuation. You'd have to say, let's go to the store, comma, and talk to mom, comma, and then come home. And if you learn, and I know people that did, there are dragon people. They have a Facebook community. I was a part of for a while. We didn't end well because I was like, that's a nightmare for me. I think in punctuation. And it was so inaccurate, it was a nightmare. Then I had two full time transcriptions that work for me. So when software that was accurate enough to be usable came out, so exciting for me. And now it's ubiquitous. Everything transcribes this episode. Like I can't stop, no matter what I do, I end up with three or four transcripts because every tool I pass it through has a transcription. So what became, what was really special when it came out has become a feature. And that's a really, really big challenge, especially for smaller companies. But how do you kind of deal with that challenge to where a lot of other tools are gonna, a lot of other tools actually say, and audiograms too. They add. Yeah, I mean, you could technically, I've been an Adobe user for a very long time and you can do audiograms in Adobe all day long. It requires more expertise though, right? So if I'm in After Effects, I could do it. If I'm in Premiere, I could do it. But you have to really know what you're doing and it takes a long time. Like it's not a quick thing to do. And so we have, including myself, Adobe users that will use wave just to get it done faster, right? They know what the end goal is. It's like, I need marketing material for my finished podcast or my audio book. I just need it done. I don't want to hire a high level skilled editor. I just need to get it done or my VA that is maybe not a skilled, just needs to get it done. And so what we're trying to do is simplify. Now, granted, we, we grew during the. you know, COVID pandemic, we were able to, you know, capture a lot of the people that were at home saying, I want to create a podcast, right? And now over the last couple of years, like you mentioned, a lot of podcasters are moving to video. They're recording, you know, video, and now they have another layer of complexity to what they're doing. Now they have to deal with video editing. They have to deal with, you know, transcribing. They have to deal with all these other things. And like you said, the trend is going to where every tool can do everything. And so as you have AI, as you have more sophistication, it's gonna get easier to just me too everything. You even see it in social media platforms themselves. If TikTok does something really well, Instagram goes, copy paste. And so there's this really interesting merging of tools that's happening and really the best tool that you can use is the one that you know how to use. quickly. And so that's where it comes down to. And we saw this in cameras, right? Like before they had the analog camera, you had to develop the film. It was really hard. And then the digital cameras came out and they were small. And but they weren't as good. The quality wasn't there. And people were like, well, now my phone is taking the good pictures. And now the phone is just as good as the DSLR. And oh my goodness. And like, so we started going through this evolution and what it really comes down to. And I think in the latest Apple Tim Cook video, he's like the end of it, he's like, and this was shot on the iPhone, right? And so, you know, you really have this situation where the best phone is the one that is with you, right? It's the one that you can capture whatever you're trying to capture because the quality is all gonna be in the same ballpark and it's gonna come down to your skill as a storyteller, as a marketer to get the right message, get the right edit and get it in front of the right people. And so it becomes less about the tools, the more talented you are. And what a lot of these software tools and AI tools are gonna do is take the talent and make them even better. And so it's gonna raise the bar. And so really, if you're a beginner, you just have to pick one, learn it and use it. And so our philosophy at Wave is just, what is the simplest tool that can get you the most results the fastest, right? No buttons. I mean, we have people that log in, they see like the smorgasbord of all these features and they're just overwhelmed, right? They're not editors. They never really learned any of the complex tools and they don't wanna become editors, right? And so we're just trying to keep it simple and find customers that are not as, they don't wanna be the video editor, right? Yeah, you brought up so many important things there because I've been thinking a lot about this episode because I actually think my ability to use certain tools has really gone down as I've added more features. So to actually correct text inside of Descript is super hard because it's always an editor mode and I have to switch modes and even then it's actually the functionality I originally like was like, oh, I can fix this transcript is now what it's the worst at. All the hotkeys are for other things, because for people that join later. And it's really, that's one of the things that happens is that a lot of tools want to be everything for everyone. And it's kind of annoying. Like now everything is transcribing everything and to different levels of quality. And I would understand if I could have, I would use a specialist, that's why I use a script, if it's the best transcriber. But... Other transcription tools are now all using the same backend. So they're all kind of the same quality and it's reaching a singularity to where eventually everything can be perfect. They still all make a ton of mistakes. Like it's guaranteed that there's going to be a mistake with your name and always, whenever I say someone's name, it always gets wrong. And also every single time I use an auto clip generator, it always grabs the beginning of the episode into the intro music. And I'm like, why would you grab that? That's not a clip. Like it's the intro voice guy every week. And so it's not, we don't want. That's the first one. They always recommend it. So I finally learned, oh, don't send a finished episode. Send an episode before I've added the commercials because it always picks that. But there's this tendency, and this is what's, I think for the consumer, this is the big problem is that as tools merge into each other, you have to constantly change your workflow. My entire pre-podcast and post-podcast workflow has changed. And I'm even thinking, I'm like, oh my gosh, I need to change. get rid of my project manager. I need it because I've changed my workflow so much. I went from a team of 20 to now I just have one, now I have two people. And so, because so many things like I had two full-time transcriptionists, that job doesn't exist anymore. Full-time editor don't need that anymore. And like someone saw someone yesterday, they go, oh, I'm hiring a proofreader. I go, that job still exists. Chat GBT doesn't make spelling mistakes. You can do that's how I edited the last book. I'll never get a grammar complaint because it doesn't make grammar mistakes. Like it solves that problem for free. That's the free version does that. So a lot of these needs, I just like my video editor, I don't need anymore because this software will record the episode, will automatically edit it. It will go back and forth between us. Because I like to have that version so that way people don't see me drinking every time you're talking. It's like, I think I look silly when I'm doing that. It does it automatically. It takes it like three minutes, which used, in fact, we actually were paying for a specialty piece of software and add onto Adobe Premiere to do that. And then this software added the functionality for free. The software offers to make clips. Now the clips they make are not good yet, but they'll catch that. So it's really hard for the consumer because you have to constantly change your workflow because tools are adding new features and the feature you originally bought it for kind of goes away. So it's why when you talk about audiograms, they go, oh, this is a tool I've always used for that. One tool, one solution, and it makes it easier. Because right now, for example, I have three background removal tools. When I need to remove the background of an image, I have three different tools. I do. I look to see which one gives the best result because they never all give the same result. So it's very overwhelming. I think the biggest problem with AI right now is overwhelmed, which is there are so many tools that all claim to do the same thing. And then now tool A has three features tool B has three features and two of them are the same features. What do I do? So you're passionate about content creation. I know that outside of wave, you know, it's the future. What's your approach? for your own as you're beginning to kind of expand your brand beyond your SaaS and kind of go to other realms. How do you, what's your work phone, which AI tools do you use or which type of tools do you like to use and what's your approach to content creation? Yeah, that's a great question. It's really hard right now. I'm still trying to figure that out because of what you just said, because you got that shiny object syndrome where it's like, oh, that's the thing I need to be doing. That's the workflow. And like you said, it changes so much. I'm almost in kind of learning mode still around a lot of the AI tools. I've been testing some of the new chat GBT. 4.5 and the new the newer versions of it with the video and it's really fascinating But like you said different qualities different, you know, some of its gimmicky is some of it's just not there yet I do think we are racing towards the singularity where eventually it'll come down to us as content creators just getting in front of the computer or a device or whatever and just giving our talk or our message or our conversation and then AI just does everything else, right? And so to the point where we're not even here, right? It's like, this is not us. This is, this is a, you know, maybe it's an avatar of someone else. Like it's a cartoon. It can be whatever you want. That's giving the, you know, you could create mascots of yourself, like different versions of yourself. You know, you got the little angel, little demon, like you got different versions that have different attitudes. I mean, there's so many different directions you can go with it. But eventually, yeah, it does come down to what is your message, what are you trying to, what's your story, what are you trying to share? And then that'll be the actual signal versus the noise that stands out in the marketplace. Because imagine what, when we do get to that singularity, I mean, everyone is gonna just, it's either gonna be AIs generating all the content and the humans are gonna be like, what is this? Like, I don't even, I don't trust anything. I don't like anything, right? It's just like what, so I'm sure there's gonna be a point where it'll get back to what can humans create. And so I'm kinda just taking all this in, trying to figure this out myself. My current stack is really not where I want it to be right now, but when I was recording podcasts a lot, it would be create the pod, record the podcast, edit the podcast in Premiere. and then post it on YouTube and then find the clips from there. And so, you know, that's kind of a simplified workflow, but I wasn't not even getting to all the, you know, I would say like that last 10% where you, you transcribe it, you do all the things that you're supposed to do. Um, I was doing that in some cases, but. You know, it's interesting. I talked to one of the top podcasters, uh, about a year ago and he said, uh, he did an experiment or his team did an experiment where they tried to choose the right clips themselves of what they thought would be the best clips and they did that for a couple episodes and then they let the AI just randomly choose whatever ones that it wanted and it would choose the worst clips like the absolute like didn't even make any sense like clips where it was like a side comment that wasn't even related to the podcast topic at all and What they found interestingly enough was the one with the random clips did way better Because they were so weird and random that didn't make sense that it caught attention Right, and so I think that's where or it was like some comment like oh what you know, I like, you know Chocolate or whatever and people were like, oh, I love chocolate too and it created engagement and so I think The Interesting thing is you it still comes down to the core. Do you grab attention? What are you saying? That's interesting Does it create any engagement? Do I care do I trust you as a content creator, right? and so like all these things are Our top of mind as I'm trying to create content. I think also because I'm a little bit more older old school from like Like a content creation standpoint. It's like I want to create something that's art like artistic, and so it's really hard pulling me into this new paradigm shift of content quote unquote, right? And so you have this really strange kind of throwaway art if you will, in content, in the content game, where it's a matter of let me just throw as much content as I can on all these platforms and see what sticks. That whole concept is just grates on me a little bit, right? The whole point of an artist is to like work hard on something and then deliver it to an audience and be like, here's my heart on a sleeve, like on my sleeve, right? Like here it is, like what do you think? And content and the cheapening of that content is really disheartening, right? Cause it's like, man, this is a totally different paradigm where now you don't even necessarily need to be a quote unquote artist or filmmaker, but you can put out all sorts of content, right? It's almost like when everybody had a phone with a camera on it, all of a sudden everyone's like, well, I'm a great photographer now because I have a camera that can take professional photos. And so it's been a little difficult for me in this journey to put out volume of content, right? And I think that's what I'm getting over right now. I've kind of gotten over like the filmmaker stepping in front of the camera. step and now it's more about like just put it out there and don't worry you know just it's okay not everything has to be like high art it can just go out and it doesn't have to be great so that's kind of where i'm at Yeah, it's a tough transition as someone who comes from writing books. And then I was like, my first mindset was, hey, if you want to read a word of it, you have to pay for it. I would know you want to read blog posts, no way that not giving you free stuff. And then I had to start. And of course, now that doesn't work. And it is this thing where it's quantity so much of it's about quantity, you just have to put a lot out there and something's gonna hit and some things aren't and it's really challenging, like Even for this show, it's like, oh, Jonathan, you got to put out two episodes a week, three episodes a week. And kind of that's only when it grows to have a lot more episodes. And I'm like, well, I'm a couple of months ahead. I don't know. Right. We just done a massive shift, shifting from one from the generic surf master to pure AI podcast, because it's so important. So you are taught things that a lot of people resonate with, which is like, well, I've already figured out a way to do things and I'm really about quality and something I'm guilty of. So someone asked me, if you had to ask me the other day. was like, oh no, one of my clients was like, oh, do you represent the masses? And I was like, well, when it comes to the movies I watch, I'm the lowest common denominator. The movies people are like, oh, that movie was terrible. I was like, oh, I liked it. Like, I'm so guilty of that. Like I'm the last one to give up on stuff as far as movies and stuff and books. Like I'll read any book. If there's a robot on the cover, I'm reading it. And I read a lot of books. Like this was definitely a VA wrote this, but I liked the story, so I'll still read it, right? And even though there's a couple of spelling mistakes and some weird Russian language, I know which country the VA is. I'm guilty of that as a consumer. So. There's this recent story about like, oh, some authors are suing because someone went to an AI and said, hey, write the next book in this guy's series. I actually thought the person thought that's a genius. I was like, really cool move. I don't know that even put them out there. They just found out about it, but it's a very cool move. And it's like, what is the author gonna do? And it is because the genius out of the bottle and authors are feeling now what musicians were feeling in 1999, 2000, when Napster came out. And I know this, listen, I'm in there. Huge. ChatGPT right in the style of Jonathan Green and it will write enough like me that I, first time I saw that I freaked out. I go, what are you doing? That's me. Because I, I'm not the most famous Jonathan Green. I'm like the third most famous author. And I assumed it would choose one of the more famous ones. But I started writing in my style and enough that I recognized it. It was enough that I go, that's how I write. And it's I was, it won't tell me which of my books I read or if it's all from my blog, where it got the content, but I feel like it definitely read more than my blog because it felt like that, but maybe it's just from my blog and other content, but it's captured the way I write. And you can fight it, but you can never get the genie back in the bottle, right? You can never switch back. And that's an important lesson for all of us, which is that we kind of have to accept, it's like the stages are great. First, you have to get to that acceptance. You have to accept, okay, this is a major shift. And we're at a time right now, which is very volatile because a lot of tools are changing. Software comes out every day. There's constant updates and it's hard to know what, because you start using a tool, right? You pay for like a year subscription to a tool and then it's obsolete a week and a half later. And for every tool I use, there's someone who swears by a different competing tool. Every time I talk about like a clutch tool, everyone else goes, that one's terrible. This is the one I use. And then I try the free trial there. It's like, well, yours is terrible. They all come up with. Again, random or weird clips, it's interesting that test you mentioned, because I'm like, maybe just to me, I'm like, oh, then I'll just let it post whoever it wants. That's like a huge time saver. Because then the hard part is like, how do I get the clip from the tool onto the social media platforms? Because those are kind of the hurdles. My business, we've always had the problem of I make content, but it never gets posted, no matter what I do. So now that process is gonna get more and more automated. It's like, I would never use a social media schedule that doesn't have an AI component. Because now my clip generator will actually generate the little stuff you write below the video with its AI and schedule. I'm like, wow, you know, now a ton of my problems are solved. It's kind of annoying because you have to do a different shape for every social media platform. That one drives me crazy. There's squares and this likes rectangles and this likes tall rectangles. So you're kind of dealing with all of that. So I think it's really normal for people to feel overwhelmed by these tools and how fast things are changing. Is sometimes we... People just assume that because I'm an AI guy that I'll, you know, I'm never overwhelmed, and I just never step behind. And honestly, there are so many, I'm a chat GPT expert, there's so many features I've never used. There's a thousand, I haven't tried all 1000, it's impossible. Like it's impossible to keep up because there's always an update. And things that work, something I was using last week, it stopped working in real time. I ran a prompt, perfect. The next time I ran the prompt 30 seconds later, it says, oh, I can't do that anymore. Mmm. Oh wow. an update while I was in the middle of doing something and it was like really annoying. And so that's the constant struggle for the users that there's not enough time to become familiar. So there's a really good topic to have people that it's okay to go. This worked, then it stopped working. Then I use this tool that I don't use this tool because I'm someone who I don't like to change my workflows. And right now it's not really an option. And so every user is trying to figure out what tools should I use. Everyone's trying to figure out. what SaaS should I use and what should I build in my company? What should my software do? Because whatever features you build now, by the time they're ready, someone else has changed what everyone wants to do, right? Like every... change. I mean, I was scheduling the other day and I'm like, where did all these features and buttons come from? And the platform itself changes, right? It's like, well, now you gotta put this and now you gotta select this and now there's all these other options and oh, you want privacy now and you gotta say whether you want this to be, you know? So yeah, it is a lot to keep up with, especially if you're posting to more than one or two platforms. Yeah, so one of the platforms that I use just ghosted all AI content. So I was having a tough day, I was just reading traffic and they go, yeah, no more. So now if you do a search, I don't know if it'll come back or not, but last time I tested, yeah, on Pinterest, if you search ChatGPT, there's no results. It brings up chili recipes. If you search artificial intelligence, there's no results. I go, okay, why are you, I was blowing up on it. Why are you doing this to me? So we're pivoting. to Bitcoin. Remember when YouTube, like pretty much, I don't know what you call it, deleted all the YouTube channels? Ha ha. Yeah, the ad-pocalypse. So these things can happen and that's an important lesson, which is again, the platforms can change as well. So it's okay to figure those things out and that's why it's always good to kind of have your backup strategies, have your simple strategies and find a workflow that works for you. And as long as it's efficient, you don't have to change it, right? My... I'm just, the problem I had wasn't getting solved. In fact, I had someone who was supposed to be posting the social media clips from this podcast using all these tools. And I looked, I was posting one, and I posted a clip in two months. He's posting one clip per week when we're supposed to do three. So I'm like, oh my gosh, you're killing me. You're just absolutely killing me. We're making the clips and you're not posting them. So it's really, even when you have people on your team, you run into the exact same problems. And I know you experienced this too, because everyone's employees does, which is that once they start thinking about drifting that they start just doing less and less and less and they can just, unless you're constantly checking them every week to go, hey, did you stop doing your work now? Did you stop doing your work now? It's like, it's good and it drops off. So this is really good. I think that, yeah, are gonna resonate with us and really thinking. So for people that are thinking, you know what? I just want something simple. I just wanna make my audio podcast into some pretty cool clips. So I just have one problem, one solution. I don't need 50 bells and whistles. I want a tool that's not overwhelming. which I get because a lot of tools I use, I can't find the functions I want anymore. I have to go watch a YouTube video to see how to do something I used to be able to do a year ago. So where can people find Wave? I know they're gonna wanna check it out because it's interesting, I was checking it out earlier today. Yeah, just go to wavve.co and sign up for a free trial. And it's unlimited. The free trial is the full version. So just knock yourself out. It should be really fun. And yeah, we're always working on stuff to try to make it faster, better. We do have some things in the works. Right now we're kind of going through a full backend refresh so that we can add templates and a bunch of other things. to the software. But yeah, I mean, we want to, big buttons, keep it easy, real simple. You get your MP4 video so you can save it and load it wherever you want. I think that's the other thing too that people don't realize is when you use a tool that kind of locks you in, right? Like, and all your, you can't leave it because you are, and then they change everything and you're like, oh man. That's tough too. Yeah, it's cool that you kind of have the consumer perspective as well as the business owner perspective, because I've been through that where, like when I want to leave a tool, especially I can tell one of the big part, a big part of my business relies on a tool that did it. The owners didn't exit. And I can tell because the new owners always do stuff to make the product worse and raise the prices. Right. And you know, it's like what I was like, what happened? I messaged my friend. He's like, Oh, we sold the company. I was like, I knew it. Nah! It was going on because this is just like, you started getting these messages. Like, Hey, surprise, we're raising the prices in a way that I think. Like I'm pretty sure they're going to run into some legal problems because it was a sketchy way of doing it. I was like, I got to get out of here. So these happen. So it's good to know that people don't have to worry about limitations. Oh, you can only do so many minutes. Cause I, I always hit that. And then I make a mistake with a tool and I'm like, Oh, I've used up. and then you're out of, yeah, you're out of credits or whatever. Yeah. So that's awesome. It's unlimited guys, especially if you have a back catalog. You're I'm going to probably play around with some of my audio books with the tool because I need to bring up some attention on my old audio books. I've never made audiograms of them. This is going to be pretty cool. So guys, that's wave, w a double V E dot C O. And thank you so much for being on today's episode of the artificial intelligence podcast. Jeff was really great. It was really fun, Jonathan. Thank you so much.