Welcome to the Serve No Master Podcast! This podcast is aimed at helping you find ways to create new revenue streams or make money online without dealing with an underpaid or underappreciated job. Our host is best-selling author, Jonathan Green.
Today's guest is Kelli Jones is a fearless and entertaining legal expert who thrives on bringing excitement to an otherwise dull field. Unfazed by those who might not appreciate her unique approach, Kelli is focused on captivating those who are willing to think outside the box. With a belief in making the legal world accessible and enjoyable, Kelli welcomes future collaborators who share her vision, while encouraging those seeking a more conventional experience to explore other avenues.
In this episode Kelli Jones, who will be discussing the importance of trademarks and their relevance in the TikTok era. Jonathan Green and Kelli dive deep into the challenges entrepreneurs face when it comes to trademarks, such as when and how to file, the overwhelm of legal jargon, and the decision to DIY or hire a lawyer. They also explore the complexity of selecting the right business categories for trademarks and the long-term consequences of mistakes. If you're an entrepreneur looking to protect your brand, this episode is a must-listen!
Notable Quotes
- "When it comes to a trademark, personally, I don't think that you should ever DIY it unless you are comfortable with paying more later on to fix it because that tends to be what happens a lot." - [Kelli Jones]
- "Sometimes it's also easier to expand into other countries if you're doing a few at a time or if you file first in the US and then do it within a couple months and use you know, you can use your US registration as a basis to apply in other places." - [Kelli Jones]
- "I just kind of decided that I was going to take it seriously regardless of how many followers I had...And then I did have a viral video about LLCs...that kinda kick-started my TikTok growth." - [Kelli Jones]
- "I don't need a trademark for every different thing that I do as part of my business, and I don't really need to go after someone else." - [Jonathan Green]
- "One of my worries was you get a logo. You think it's unique. Right? Maybe you spend a cup $100, a couple $100, then you file for it, and it turns out someone else has something similar."- [Jonathan Green]
Connect with Kelli Jones
Website: lawyerkelli.com/podcast
Connect with Jonathan Green
Welcome to the Serve No Master Podcast! This podcast is aimed at helping you find ways to create new revenue streams or make money online without dealing with an underpaid or underappreciated job. Our host is best-selling author, Jonathan Green.
Today's guest is Kelli Jones is a fearless and entertaining legal expert who thrives on bringing excitement to an otherwise dull field. Unfazed by those who might not appreciate her unique approach, Kelli is focused on captivating those who are willing to think outside the box. With a belief in making the legal world accessible and enjoyable, Kelli welcomes future collaborators who share her vision, while encouraging those seeking a more conventional experience to explore other avenues.
In this episode Kelli Jones, who will be discussing the importance of trademarks and their relevance in the TikTok era. Jonathan Green and Kelli dive deep into the challenges entrepreneurs face when it comes to trademarks, such as when and how to file, the overwhelm of legal jargon, and the decision to DIY or hire a lawyer. They also explore the complexity of selecting the right business categories for trademarks and the long-term consequences of mistakes. If you're an entrepreneur looking to protect your brand, this episode is a must-listen!
Notable Quotes
- "When it comes to a trademark, personally, I don't think that you should ever DIY it unless you are comfortable with paying more later on to fix it because that tends to be what happens a lot." - [Kelli Jones]
- "Sometimes it's also easier to expand into other countries if you're doing a few at a time or if you file first in the US and then do it within a couple months and use you know, you can use your US registration as a basis to apply in other places." - [Kelli Jones]
- "I just kind of decided that I was going to take it seriously regardless of how many followers I had...And then I did have a viral video about LLCs...that kinda kick-started my TikTok growth." - [Kelli Jones]
- "I don't need a trademark for every different thing that I do as part of my business, and I don't really need to go after someone else." - [Jonathan Green]
- "One of my worries was you get a logo. You think it's unique. Right? Maybe you spend a cup $100, a couple $100, then you file for it, and it turns out someone else has something similar."- [Jonathan Green]
Connect with Kelli Jones
Website: lawyerkelli.com/podcast
Connect with Jonathan Green
Jonathan Green: Trademarks to TikTok with today's special guest, Kelly Jones.
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Announcer: Are you tired of dealing with your boss? Do you feel underpaid and underappreciated? If you want to make it online, fire your boss and start living your retirement dreams now, then you've come to the right place. Welcome to Serve No Master podcast where you'll learn how to open new revenue streams and make money while you sleep. Presented live from a tropical island in the South Pacific by best selling author Jonathan Green. Now Here's your host.
Jonathan Green: Now this is very interesting to me because trademarks are really tricky area for For a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of entrepreneurs make that early mistake and they go, how long should I do it? And then someone else claims and they can't figure out. So what's really interesting to me, I'd love to hear about your journey, how You take a subject that is very boring. Like, it's very hard to do, like, talk trademark law, trademark research and make it interesting. And also, There's a worry that a lot of people have like, oh, if I do something silly on TikTok, then people won't wanna work with me because I'm too silly. How do you kind of handle that challenge?
Kelli Jones: Yeah. I think I just think that it is I mean, all the legal kind of stuff is pretty boring, So I just try to make it, you know, as entertaining and as, like, at least boring as possible. And I kinda just think, like, Whatever people do see that and, you know, do wanna work with me, then that's great. And for all the other people that don't want to work with me, you know, maybe they can Go find a big law firm or something else if they're more comfortable with that. So I kinda just don't really worry about it.
Jonathan Green: So one of the Big challenges. There's a lot of entrepreneurs I know. They go crazy with patents and trademarks early on before they have proof of concept. And I was part of a project where my business partner does. I was like, what are you doing? We don't know if it's a good idea yet. We're doing all this complicated tax and legal structures and all of these things. I was like, this seem very silly to me, but There's also other respect where people wait too long. When I filed my trademark, I was already in business for a couple of years.
Jonathan Green: I had the domain name. I had, my book had that name. My podcast had that name. So I already had a lot of security in the name. I was obviously first doing business and my book was selling well. And I kind of as I grew, I go, oh, it's time to grab it. But I don't need a trademark for every different thing that I do as part of my business, and I don't really need to go after someone else. Like, some there is 1 motorcycle copy that has T shirts that say Servo Master, I think they sell 1 shirt a year.
Jonathan Green: I'm not gonna go after them. I might ask for a free t shirt at most, but peep it's overwhelming. What happened to me is as soon as I filed, I got Maybe 50 to 70 emails from all these different law firms that, hey. You totally messed up. You're gonna lose your patent. You're gonna lose your life. You need to pay us $5,000 to fix it. You made a bunch of mistakes.
And I turned out I did it right the 1st time. Very simple trademark. No one else used the name. Very, unsurprising. I just happened to be very lucky, but It's very over and now it's been my 5 years. And between 5 6 years, you have to renew and show you're still doing it. Oh my gosh. I'm getting all these you're gonna lose your patent.
You're gonna go out of business. You're gonna take your life. What are you doing? How does an entrepreneur navigate that when it's overwhelming? It's either the messages are so threatening. It's so scary that it makes you pull away.
Kelli Jones: Yeah. So, I mean, I don't agree with lawyers that, like, send out pitches like that in the 1st place. It's not something I do. There are firms that do that, but those are kind of more like the firms that you wanna avoid. So I would mostly tell people just ignore those emails. Think of them as, like, the same type of you know, once you file the trademark, you're gonna get a whole bunch of mail, like scams that are telling you to pay $1,000, 1400, whatever, to all these organizations. Like, keep your trademark, get it published, all these things that, like, none of them are true. You already paid your fees to the government.
It's all scams. I kind of think of them all, like, the same way pretty much to just tell people to ignore them. And if you do work with a lawyer when you do it, then you don't really You don't get any of those emails from other firms and stuff, so that is not really something you ever have to worry about either.
Jonathan Green: How does someone know They can do it themselves versus they definitely need help. Where's kind of that threshold?
Kelli Jones: So there are things that I think you can DIY when it comes to legal, like you're filing an LLC, something like that, super pretty simple. When it comes to a trademark, personally, I don't think that you should ever DIY it unless you are comfortable with paying more later on to fix it because that tends to be what happens a lot. Yes. There are the people that get lucky, But even the people that DIY their application, a lot of times, the description of services that they filed for is not the same description that a lawyer would put And we would put more in to cover you. We would put more you know, sometimes I see DIY people putting, like, a one line description, and we would put a lot more in to Protect you, give you a broader protection, and maybe protect you more for the future. So, really, when it comes to the trademark, that's not Something that I recommend people DIYing just because the consequences of not getting it are So, you know, you might have to either completely redo it or pay more to fix it in the middle if you get that refusal. Because at this point, you're taking it's about 9 to 10 months right now before an examiner is even getting assigned to your application. I know when you applied, if you applied Did it 5 years ago.
It was probably much quicker. Now it's taking over a year to get a trademark. So just that 1st 9 months, you're waiting. So If you find out, you know, 10 months after you file that something's wrong and you have to either redo it or pay more to get it fixed, it doesn't really You know, by that point, other people could have filed with something somewhat similar because since you filed, millions more people have filed Just in 1 year alone, so it can cost you more money in the long run if you DIY it.
Jonathan Green: Let's talk about that because that is the trickiest part where you have to select which categories your business is in, And they never make any sense. Even it's the same thing happens every time when I have to figure out what business category I'm in when I've opened a new bank account, and none of them like, our post 1980. It's like, they They have a ton of them if you're like a lumberjack or if you're doing all these business that don't exist anymore. They never update them, and it is very confusing because Should I claim clothing? Because maybe I'll make clothes one day, but it's not my primary business. Should I claim these other categories? So what's that process? Like, for someone starting out a business, how many categories should they go for right away? Where's The complexity, let's talk about that part because that's definitely the hardest
Kelli Jones: part. Yeah. So, generally, I first, I typically ask people, like, what are the goals for the next 1 to 3 years because there can be things that people think, okay. Maybe I'll do in 5 years, but we don't really wanna focus on that just yet because you can Either if you're already using something, you know, maybe a service that you already are monetizing or something that you intend to use, But we wanna think of things that you're actually intending to use within the next couple years because you're gonna have to show proof of that. And if you don't have that proof, you're gonna Just be filing these extensions to keep pushing off the trademark, and that's gonna increase your costs every 6 months that you have to file that extension. So, really, it's like, what are you using now and what are you using in the immediate future and also the priority, you know, because Each one is a separate filing fee, so sometimes it's a priority of, like, what is the most important that you wanna pay for. Typically, when people come to me, most People we do have the outliers of people that are paying for, like, 5, 7, 9 classes. Most people generally file for 1 to 3 classes, And then maybe in the future, we'll file for more, you know, if they've expanded things, but that's pretty much the typical realm.
And, also, a lot of people, you know, do Clothing maybe as, like, an addition. It's not their main business, but they also sell clothing or mugs or stickers. Focus on what you are actually you know, the bulk of your business first and then those additions of you know, if you Financially can do all the filing fees for those just because it can add up really quick. You know? Like, clothing is 1 category. Mugs is another. Stickers is another. You know, journals, like, all these things are different classes, so they're different $350 filing fees.
Jonathan Green: Oh, Most people, when they think, oh, I need to get a trademark, it's defensive. They're thinking, oh, if someone tries to grab something from me. And What how defensive do you need to be? For example, like I mentioned, there's someone else that makes a t shirt with serve no master on it. I don't really care that much because it's like the 57th result Search engine, so it's not a big problem. It doesn't look like me. Like, nobody would go, oh, Jonathan also has a motorcycle brand. Right? So I'm not so worried about competition, but Do I need to claim other areas? Like, do I need to claim mugs if someone's putting out mugs? Because it's more I care about if there's a confusion more than anything else. So that's the question, like, how much territory do I need to grab defensively?
Kelli Jones: So that's overall, that's the point of trademarks, to avoid confusion because you don't want consumers thinking that you are connected to that other brand, but you can only claim things that you're actually using or have an intent to use in in the immediate one to couple years future. So if you don't have an intent to use them or if you're not using them, then there's There's no really no point really in getting that. Like, you know, if you think that you want to expand to mugs, Then you can go and file for that. But during the process, you have to show proof that you're actually selling them, whether that's a screenshot from your website or something like that showing it. So if you're not doing that, then there's no real point in grabbing all these other things because The purpose isn't like this defense, like, you can't have this. You can't use this. It's really just so other people aren't confused with what you are Already doing or what you're, like, really trying to do.
Jonathan Green: Yeah. Because when I first started out online about 20 years ago, they were like, you have to buy the .com, the .net, and the.org because someone else will buy the The .net and try and steal your traffic or steal your audience, and that's unfortunately gone away, but I think that's how a lot of people think. It's like, oh, I don't want someone to Infringe or that kind of thing. They're worried about that attack. I don't know how common that is. Like, I've never had a problem with that. Like, I don't think once your size where people wanna steal your brand name, I think It's a different place to be anyways, right, where you have to have a big enough business to be worth doing that. But the part about, like, the market itself, because you can either just do the text or you can do, like, a drawing.
And one One thing I know is that I've gone through, like, 7 logos over the last few years. Like, I definitely was like, oh, I don't wanna grab this logo because I'm gonna change my mind. But a lot of people like, when I first was Talking to attorneys, they did all these searches for these different things that look like my logo. I was like, what are you doing? I don't care about that. I just care about the 3 words. I wanna be able to do whatever I want with it. I'm not inventing the Nike swoosh. Right? Like, I'm not going that far.
I'm not the FedEx secret arrow. Like, I'm just my name, but a lot of people, If you do that and you claim that Zip Mark and then you change it, you go to a different logo design, what's that process like? Do you have to resubmit stuff?
Kelli Jones: Yeah. You do. So, typically, When people come to me, I ask them, you know, I ask them all about their logo. Like, if there's a design element to it, how strongly they feel about it, What the overall you know, like, their goals are with it because some people you can file for both the words and the logo if you want to, also, if you have the money to do so, but I always tell people that not every single time, but for the most part, the best thing to file for is the words themselves because Then you can get ownership over those words, and you can use it in any font, any color, any size, whatever you want with it. Whereas if you do file in only the logo with Which I do see a lot of businesses doing, then you're only getting protection in that exact format. And then, you know, some people, you can apply either in black or white, which Then at least gives you the option to change colors. But if you apply in color too, then you're limiting yourself even more into that exact like, those shades even. So I always tell people, you know, like, unless you're, like, very set on that logo but most times, businesses do at least tweak logos over time, and And then you're gonna have to file a whole new application for a whole new trademark. So at least get the words, and then you can do whatever you want with it.
Jonathan Green: Yeah. One of my worries was you get a logo. You think it's unique. Right? Maybe you spend a cup $100, a couple $100, then you file for it, and it turns out someone else has something similar. Like, that's what I because mine I don't know why they were searching for, like, circles and half moons, and there's a 1000 logos with a half moon in it. Right? Like, of course, there's a half circle shape. That's not a unique shape. And I was like, They definitely don't wanna go down this road.
I feel like you're more likely to get rejected as well because it's so easy to have something similar. Someone else uses that font. It turns out it's a commercial font, which run into a lot. People don't realize you have to pay for fonts, and that can be another challenge. So it seems like it's safer. Because when I filed, yeah, it was about 5 months. Very easy process. I know now.
Thanks to Amazon. There's millions of people doing it. Amazon has everyone has to have an LLC, so they're all filing these trademarks Causing this big thing now waiting twice as long. That would be really scary. Like, you definitely don't want that to happen. The other question is, like, what should people expect the process to cost? Because there's also the thing where some lawyers like you gotta file for your trademark internationally. I'm like, I already know in China they're gonna steal it. Like, it's just how it is.
Right? You can buy Microsoft everywhere. They're from Microsoft. They're gonna be able to steal from me. I don't know why people file trademarks everywhere. Why do people go down that path? And, really, what are the essentials Besides America, do we really need to claim anywhere
Kelli Jones: else? So it really depends on where you're selling. If you are selling you know, if you're doing a lot of business in Canada or The UK or wherever, then you might wanna consider filing there. Sometimes it's also easier to expand into other countries if you're doing a few at a time or if you file first in the US and then do it within a couple months and use you know, you can use your US registration as a basis to apply in other places. Most of my clients are small business owners. So, typically, we file in the US, and we don't really file elsewhere In the world, unless they do vastly expand their business somewhere else and maybe, you know, maybe that's Canada first. But unless you're doing a very large global business or really just any global business at all, That's really when you would think of expanding in other countries as depending on how much business you're doing there, really.
Jonathan Green: And how much did someone budget for the process? I don't know what the prices are anymore. I'm going through that new process of showing proof of all my different categories again. But how much does someone plan for this process if they're gonna just Got maybe 1 to 2 categories, just US, and they're gonna work with the buyer. Because
Kelli Jones: I typically tell peep yeah. It is. I typically tell people about 2 to 4000 is pretty average. This is because including the filing fees, which are 2.50 to 3.50 per class of goods or services, which I believe they are trying to increase them yet again next year. And this, it might sound, especially for people earlier on in their business, like, that's a lot. Most of the fee or half of the fee essentially is going to that search that we're doing before we actually file because now, you know, trademark real estate is dwindling. It's very much more common to receive an A refusal for your trademark being too similar to someone else's, and that's something that we'll kind of assess prior to even wasting the time filing. So that's typically 2 to 4 depending on the attorney
Jonathan Green: you use. Let's talk about that search process because when I was working with a law firm my family's all lawyers. So I I started working with a trademark attorney, and they sent me I could tell their research was bad. Like, that's the best way to say it. They were obviously overcharging my family. I could tell. I was like, this is all the wrong stuff. I went to the website myself and just did a search for my phrase, and there's nobody that has it.
Nobody has serve. No. There was 1 company, like, 20 years ago that had a mark in 1 category I don't use, and They were like only using the word serve. So is there something beyond that or for simple words only? I know for images, it's a whole different ballgame. For just words, is it just searching the patent Patent a trademark website, or is there more to it now?
Kelli Jones: So there's way more to it because you can do a basic free search on the trademark website, But you'll likely not get a full picture because it's not just identical things that are an issue. It's also anything that sounds similar, looks Similar has a similar meaning. So we use different websites. We pay for them to that use full algorithms to look for things Because, you know, yours has served no master, but people spell things all different ways. Like, it could be master, master is mastery. Even master, it could be like, I don't know, captain. Like, there's all these different things that and It doesn't necessarily matter if, like, you and I think things are similar because sometimes an examiner is like, no. It's too similar.
Like, I've had people I've had examiners say, like, the come back with the wild these wild things that, like, I do not think that there's any confusion or they're similar at all. Even the words, I don't think are similar, but they do think they're similar, especially now. It's just even increasing. So that's really what that search does is look for all these algorithms and uses the algorithms to come up with anything that is even remotely similar. So we have a full picture of, like, what we're getting into so we can We kinda know, like, okay. Maybe these things will get cited. But if they do, we have an argument to try to differentiate our brand from their brands.
Jonathan Green: So let's talk about that. Can you give me some examples of, like, words like, the most dissimilar words that they still said were similar ones that kind of surprised you? Like, the words were is it more about these words or synonyms, or is it more that the meaning is the same? Can you give me kind of some examples that we can understand?
Kelli Jones: Yeah. So it can be both. So, for example, I have 1 client that has 2 words in her brand, and one of the words is A unique word, and she just got an office action cited for 6 other things that all have that word in them, but then multiple other Different words. So, like and some of them even have very unique words in themselves either, like, made up words or Just unique words in themselves, not like coffee or, you know, something that's descriptive of the goods or services. And they still Issued all these refusals for all of these other ones that, you know, they share one common term out of, like, 3 2 to 3 words, sometimes even 4, And they've issued all these refusals for them, not saying the name only because it's a pending trademark, and I can't say it. But that is kind of the situation that we're running into a lot where there's a lot of other words in these Trademarks that are not similar. You know? It's not just like someone has the exact name that we're getting the thing for. I had one that was The blonde hostess, and we got, like, refusals for all of these other things with blonde in it.
We blonde itself, but then we got, like, Blonde, like, I forget what they are at the time, but, like, a word that was not hostess, completely other words, not the same goods and services either, and we just got A refusal for a bunch of them. I think they're being a lot pickier now with what is similar or not Even in because, you know, they look at the word themselves how similar it is to someone else, but they also look at the goods and services how similar. And I had 1 client who she was a fitness coach, and there was a similar mark, not identical, but similar For a social media coach, and the examiner said that they were too similar even though no one is accidentally buying a Zumba class when they meant to, like, Hire a coach for social media. Like, that's not happening, but they said it was too similar. So, yeah, it's it can be kinda difficult.
Jonathan Green: Once you have your mark, like, once you have your trademark, how much do you have to actively defend it? Right? Like, I know that sometimes things happen. Like, Is there a possibility, really, of you losing it? And what is that situation like?
Kelli Jones: Yeah. So, technically, once you get the trademark registration, you do have a duty to police your mark, you know, from if you The infringers, you're supposed to try to get them to stop using it and not just, you know, like, let them like, let's say it's other big business or not big, but, you know, Businesses that are using it, you're not supposed to just let them use it if it's in the something that is causing confusion. But, you know, some people do there are Instances where people do have to send a cease and desist or something like that. Generally, if you are a a much smaller business, it's not something that you're out there doing that often, but sometimes people do pop up, especially, you know, like, on social media with another social media account maybe or something like that that we do have to Either ask them to take it down or have someone take it down. Sometimes there are instances where, like, they will try to File, like, a some type of proceeding because of your trademark, but I would say those are, like, not Super common scenarios where someone would do something like that.
Jonathan Green: So an example for me is that I have the trademark for Serve No Master. It's my flagship book. No No one else can grab that title, but my other book, which is really popular fire your boss, 50 other authors came out and put out a book with the same name to kind of go after me. Is it worth if I go and get the trademark and then I can then kick all those books out of the game? So Is that worth the effort, and what's that kind of like?
Kelli Jones: Yeah. So, technically, you can't trademark a book title for 1 book. You have to have a series. Otherwise, it's not, like, an actual Trademark. So you can't just trademark a book title or stop someone else from using the title of a book name unless it's a series. That's just like how it is Under the actual trademark law. So unless you're having a series for that and then filing the trademark, then you could prevent other people, but not really before then Under the trademark law.
Jonathan Green: Okay. This is all very interesting. What I'd love to talk about now is your transition to kind of carving out your real estate on social media. What was your Strategy for drawing on TikTok, and what are the highs and lows? Just tell me your journey.
Kelli Jones: Yeah. So I kind of started towards the beginning of my business, I Started on TikTok as well, and I kind of just decided that I was going to take it seriously regardless of how many followers I had. And I just kind of decided, like, okay. I'm just gonna keep posting regardless of how many views I get. And over time, I got, You know, unattached really to the outcome of how many views I was getting, how many likes, saves, shares, all these things. And then I did have a viral video about LLCs A couple within a couple months of, you know, starting to continuously post on TikTok, and that kinda, like, kick started the my TikTok growth. And then it kind of also just inspired me to even keep going. So my strategy is just to post most days on TikTok And, you know, as educational without trying to be as boring as possible.
And I go through a lot of periods where there's, like, lulls, you know, low views, 200, 300 views with not a lot of, You know, it it doesn't seemingly seem like it's worth it at times, but I just try to push through that. And then usually within a couple months, like, something happens or Within a couple weeks, I'll see that I have a form, you know, when people schedule consultations, where they found me, and I'll see, like, oh, it's someone from TikTok. And then I'll see, okay. Even though I'm only getting 200 views, I'm still attracting some business owners that are looking for help. So that's kind of what just keeps me going even through the Low engagement periods.
Jonathan Green: It seems like a lot of people post 2 to 5 videos and then just quit. They give up too soon. So what What would you say to people that are kinda worrying about that and they're like, oh, I want my 1st video to go viral?
Kelli Jones: Well, first, like, I feel like you the more videos you post, The more likely you might go viral just because of the quantity. So, one, just keep going. Keep posting consistently. For some people, they might have a viral video on their 1st video. Some people, it's 10. Some people, it's a 100. Some people, maybe it's a1000. But even if your 1st viral viral video isn't until your 1,000th video, like, that doesn't mean that your first 999 are bad and and won't do anything for your business.
You know? You can still like I said, even on some of my periods where I'm getting 200 views for A month or 2 at a time. Like, I'm still bringing in clients from those, so not everything has to go viral. And sometimes People go a lot of people that do end up going viral, it's for something that's unrelated to their business, and then that doesn't really help them anyway because the people they're bringing in aren't, like, Their ideal audience. So, you know, morality isn't really everything. Sometimes even just, you know, Staying consistent with something is really what is going to benefit you more in the long run.
Jonathan Green: So what would you advise out how many times a day should they post, how long should they stay before they give up. What are kind of the guidance?
Kelli Jones: Yeah. So I typically tell people to post whatever you can be consistent with. So for some people, that might be, like, 3 times a day. For some people, that's once a day. For some people, it might be, like, 3 or 4 videos a week. I think whichever Frequency that is is fine as long as you can be consistent with it because over time, it's not gonna matter as much. Sure. If you're Posting many more times a day every day, it might help kick start in the beginning because it's gonna speed up the time that it takes you to get Better with videos, and, also, it's gonna be easier to film them because you're gonna be getting more and more used to it quicker.
But overall, in the scheme of well, long scheme of things, I don't think it really matters about frequency as much as that you're staying consistent with it, and you're not, like, Diving off and, you know, stopping for 3 months at a time. So, really, whatever you feel comfortable doing and also to test out different types of videos, different Length's different. I do a lot of, like, talking videos, talking to the camera for, like, 30 to 60 seconds. That will That I found is what works best for me, but maybe it's not for you. Maybe it's a short video with text over it, you know, like a lot of what people are doing on Instagram right now. So test out a lot of different types of videos and see what works for you, see what you like best too, then just stick with it really is the the most important thing.
Jonathan Green: Shared a lot of really good stuff with us today. For people who wanna learn more about you, maybe learn more about trademark stuff or just see the amazing stuff you're doing on TikTok, where's the best place for people to find you?
Kelli Jones: Yeah. TikTok, it's lawyer kelly with an I, and on Instagram, it's the same lawyer kelly with an I, but an underscore after as well.
Jonathan Green: Okay. Great. Thank Thank you so much for being here. I'll make sure to put those in the show notes and below the video on YouTube, and I know everyone's gonna really love this. Thank you so much for being here.
Kelli Jones: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me.
Jonathan Green: Thank you for listening to the serve no master podcast. Make sure to subscribe so that together, we can achieve Thank
Announcer: you for listening to this week's episode of the serve no master podcast. Make sure you subscribe so you never miss another episode. We'll be back next week with more tips and tactics on how to escape the rat race. Please take a moment to leave a review at servenomaster.comforward/itunes. It helps the show grow, and more listeners means more content for you. Thanks again, and we'll see you next